Tell Bob Lutz what you think of the GTO - Page 2 - PY Online Forums

red70goat · #21 01-28-2005, 08:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> Yes it did, after deep, deep, discounting and original production figures have been cut back for the 05. Hey, it's a good car, a worthy musclecar, it's just not being embraced as a GTO by it's manufacturer or enough potential consumers. And as such I doubt we'll see one in 2007. Lutz is an out of touch doddering old beancounter that needs to be put in charge of things he can't screw up like a 4 door Aztec Convertible TurboCharged G23 AWD SUV or something like that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Wasn't embraced by GM? NO, it wasn't marketed well."
>>> Uhhh, Mr. 0-I-Q...Isn't that the same thing?

" you don't have a clue what you are talking about there so you should just shut up about it. "

>>> Yeah, that's what morons like you told me a year ago when I said the 05 would be offered with a higher spoiler and ricer front end to appeal to the tuner crowd. Again, that's not reflective of the car itself ( a 4 passenger 13 second car off the showroom floor is a clear accomplishment ) but rather GMs piss poor job of finding the correct target market.

" You know just as well as me that you don't make statements without evidence to back it up."

>>> All my statements about the lack of a GTO in 2007 were based on opinion. Nobody can say for sure or not whether a GTO will be produced in 2007 until such date arrives.

" I have taken a few law classes."
>>> I'm glad to hear you're taking my advice. I believe in a previous post I encouraged you to finish High School and get your GED.

Mr_GTO · #22 01-28-2005, 09:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
[>>> Uhhh, Mr. 0-I-Q...Isn't that the same thing?

>>> Yeah, that's what morons like you told me a year ago when I said the 05 would be offered with a higher spoiler and ricer front end to appeal to the tuner crowd. Again, that's not reflective of the car itself ( a 4 passenger 13 second car off the showroom floor is a clear accomplishment ) but rather GMs piss poor job of finding the correct target market.

>>> All my statements about the lack of a GTO in 2007 were based on opinion. Nobody can say for sure or not whether a GTO will be produced in 2007 until such date arrives.

>>> I'm glad to hear you're taking my advice. I believe in a previous post I encouraged you to finish High School and get your GED. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. Embraced and marketed is not the same thing. GM should have handed down an edict to dealers not to charge over sticker and they should have advertised the car in more area's than just speedtv and spikeTV.

Morons like me? At least I didn't forget my username/password then RE-Register as a troll named "watsa monaro?" You just continue to prove you don't have a clue.

Oh so you don't have any evidence. Great case councilor. LOL, what a joke.

Thanks I have my BS in Criminal Justice and my minor in sociology. What firm do you work for? I'll make sure if I ever get in trouble in Salt Lake City I won't come calling.

Crow_T_Robot · #23 01-28-2005, 09:48 AM

He works for Dewy, Cheatum, and Howe.

red70goat · #24 01-28-2005, 02:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
[>>> Uhhh, Mr. 0-I-Q...Isn't that the same thing?

>>> Yeah, that's what morons like you told me a year ago when I said the 05 would be offered with a higher spoiler and ricer front end to appeal to the tuner crowd. Again, that's not reflective of the car itself ( a 4 passenger 13 second car off the showroom floor is a clear accomplishment ) but rather GMs piss poor job of finding the correct target market.

>>> All my statements about the lack of a GTO in 2007 were based on opinion. Nobody can say for sure or not whether a GTO will be produced in 2007 until such date arrives.

>>> I'm glad to hear you're taking my advice. I believe in a previous post I encouraged you to finish High School and get your GED. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

" they should have advertised the car in more area's than just speedtv and spikeTV."

>>> You forget the high end product placement such as Pimp My Ride and cheesey cable movies. Oh and lets not forget "drifting"

Again, that's not a reflection of the car but the geniuses at Beavis and LutzHead in totally missing the mark.

" You just continue to prove you don't have a clue."

>>> Typical Monaro Glee Club member. If you don't like what GM did to the GTO then for some reason that makes one clueless. I guess the quotes I provide from GM execs makes them clueless also. ( Well, Lutz anyways ) Without some major exterior retooling, we'll see how clueless I am in 07 just like I was clueless about a ricer package for 05. As I've said many times before, it's a great Musclecar, I just think it makes a lousy GTO. But it wouldn't take much to make it a great GT0. The 04 owners seem to love their ride. Given that most of them seem to be Pontiac savvy with a clean vintage Goat or two in their stable that says a lot for this car. At the track it performs better than most of it's competition. Despite that it continues to lag in sales without deep, deep discounts. Sounds like GM is the clueless one here.

"Oh so you don't have any evidence."
>>> Do you know the difference between something that is presented as a declaration of fact rather than something that is expressed as an opinion? And if so, which requires evidence? My opinion that the GTO will not be around in 2007 is based on past sales and current lack of media and auto show coverage. But it's not 2007. So therefor it is an opinion. Get over it.

"I'll make sure if I ever get in trouble in Salt Lake City I won't come calling."
>>> I wouldn't expect you to. You couldn't afford me.

Mr_GTO · #25 01-28-2005, 02:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
" they should have advertised the car in more area's than just speedtv and spikeTV."

>>> You forget the high end product placement such as Pimp My Ride and cheesey cable movies. Oh and lets not forget "drifting"

Again, that's not a reflection of the car but the geniuses at Beavis and LutzHead in totally missing the mark.

>>> Typical Monaro Glee Club member. If you don't like what GM did to the GTO then for some reason that makes one clueless. I guess the quotes I provide from GM execs makes them clueless also. ( Well, Lutz anyways ) Without some major exterior retooling, we'll see how clueless I am in 07 just like I was clueless about a ricer package for 05. As I've said many times before, it's a great Musclecar, I just think it makes a lousy GTO. But it wouldn't take much to make it a great GT0. The 04 owners seem to love their ride. Given that most of them seem to be Pontiac savvy with a clean vintage Goat or two in their stable that says a lot for this car. At the track it performs better than most of it's competition. Despite that it continues to lag in sales without deep, deep discounts. Sounds like GM is the clueless one here.

>>> Do you know the difference between something that is presented as a declaration of fact rather than something that is expressed as an opinion? And if so, which requires evidence? My opinion that the GTO will not be around in 2007 is based on past sales and current lack of media and auto show coverage. But it's not 2007. So therefor it is an opinion. Get over it.

>>> I wouldn't expect you to. You couldn't afford me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL, yea, Pontiac is now in more motorsports series with the NEW GTO than they EVER were with the old one. NHRA, Drifting, SpeedTV Racing Series, Grand Am cup. Knowledge is power.

Yea, I Like the car and I back up it's attributes with facts, unlike you with your opinion that isn't fact based but you like to pass if off as that.
Jesus, did you ever do ANY research to get yourself through law school? It took me 30 seconds to find this and it ain't opinion.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...Pontiac+GTO%22
Again, Knowledge is power.

LOL, trust me, based on your research methodology in these threads, if I were being charged with Capital Murder and you were the last attorney in the country I wouldn't hire you. LOL, what a joke.

Crow_T_Robot · #26 01-28-2005, 03:00 PM

Some drink from the fountain of knowledge, he only gargles.

red70goat · #27 01-28-2005, 03:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
" they should have advertised the car in more area's than just speedtv and spikeTV."

>>> You forget the high end product placement such as Pimp My Ride and cheesey cable movies. Oh and lets not forget "drifting"

Again, that's not a reflection of the car but the geniuses at Beavis and LutzHead in totally missing the mark.

>>> Typical Monaro Glee Club member. If you don't like what GM did to the GTO then for some reason that makes one clueless. I guess the quotes I provide from GM execs makes them clueless also. ( Well, Lutz anyways ) Without some major exterior retooling, we'll see how clueless I am in 07 just like I was clueless about a ricer package for 05. As I've said many times before, it's a great Musclecar, I just think it makes a lousy GTO. But it wouldn't take much to make it a great GT0. The 04 owners seem to love their ride. Given that most of them seem to be Pontiac savvy with a clean vintage Goat or two in their stable that says a lot for this car. At the track it performs better than most of it's competition. Despite that it continues to lag in sales without deep, deep discounts. Sounds like GM is the clueless one here.

>>> Do you know the difference between something that is presented as a declaration of fact rather than something that is expressed as an opinion? And if so, which requires evidence? My opinion that the GTO will not be around in 2007 is based on past sales and current lack of media and auto show coverage. But it's not 2007. So therefor it is an opinion. Get over it.

>>> I wouldn't expect you to. You couldn't afford me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"I Like the car and I back up it's attributes with facts, unlike you with your opinion that isn't fact based but you like to pass if off as that."

>>> Yeah, Your right Mr. GTOIDUNNO, my take on the cars' performance attributes that I experienced from my own test drive, published performance test results, head to head comparisons with similar cars in it's same class, testimonials from actual owners, I guess I was wrong in saying it was a Musclecar in every way. I guess I was wrong in saying that a 4 passenger 13 second car off the showroom floor was a noteworthy accomplishment. That was just an opinion. By the way, if you do get in some sort of trouble in SLC, please do call me. I know plenty of attorneys that do pro-bono work that I could refer you to.

QUOTE]

Mr_GTO · #28 01-28-2005, 03:13 PM

Still trying to learn how to use the quote function uh? LOL, christ what a joke you are.

1. I wouldn't need legal help because I am not a deadbeat.

2. I am pretty sure I could afford a very good attorney thank you very much.

Again councilor, Facts. Or did you miss that day in Law School?

LOL

red70goat · #29 01-28-2005, 03:44 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
1. I wouldn't need legal help
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, just a GED and a tutor. And congratulations on finally learning to use a search engine. It is usually your style to spout off about something you know little or nothing about and then ask somebody else to find it for you. BTW: My assertion that the performance of the 2004 GTO as a leader in its' class is based on fact in case you had trouble undertstanding my post prior to this one. If you'd take a breath you might actually find we are in agreement on this car in many areas with the exception of its' future. The article and renderings you coughed up were published in 2003. There are many more that have come out since then varying in content and text. It would appear you still don't understand the difference between fact and opinion.

Crow_T_Robot · #30 01-28-2005, 03:59 PM

I object....councilor is badgering the witness! Where were you on the night of the 13th?

Mr_GTO · #31 01-28-2005, 04:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
1. I wouldn't need legal help
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, just a GED and a tutor. And congratulations on finally learning to use a search engine. It is usually your style to spout off about something you know little or nothing about and then ask somebody else to find it for you. BTW: My assertion that the performance of the 2004 GTO as a leader in its' class is based on fact in case you had trouble undertstanding my post prior to this one. If you'd take a breath you might actually find we are in agreement on this car in many areas with the exception of its' future. The article and renderings you coughed up were published in 2003. There are many more that have come out since then varying in content and text. It would appear you still don't understand ]the difference between fact and opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I graduated HS and College thanks. LOL, at least I know how to use one. Unlike yourself.

Oh please, you're such a BS'ing fraud. When you forgot your username you made one up to piss off the people who like the 2004 GTO.

The problem with your argument is opinion is arbitrary, fact isn't. You claim that the GTO won't be made in 2007, I have PROVEN with LINKS that it will be built. Obviously you still don't have a clue of what you talk about.

red70goat · #32 01-28-2005, 05:04 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
1. I wouldn't need legal help
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, just a GED and a tutor. And congratulations on finally learning to use a search engine. It is usually your style to spout off about something you know little or nothing about and then ask somebody else to find it for you. BTW: My assertion that the performance of the 2004 GTO as a leader in its' class is based on fact in case you had trouble undertstanding my post prior to this one. If you'd take a breath you might actually find we are in agreement on this car in many areas with the exception of its' future. The article and renderings you coughed up were published in 2003. There are many more that have come out since then varying in content and text. It would appear you still don't understand ]the difference between fact and opinion. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"You claim that the GTO won't be made in 2007, I have PROVEN with LINKS that it will be built."
>>> So, computer links build a car do they?? Uhhh, yeah,Whatever

There are many more links disputing otherwise as to whether a 2007 will be built or not. Whether it will be built or not is a matter of opinion until the actual car rolls off the assembly line and is offered for sale to the general public tagged as a 2007 GTO. Given it's current downward sales spiral, lack of media coverage, cut back production, and bland looks I doubt we'll see one in 2007 unless GM builds a GTO with more visual and exsclusively GTO appeal. Personally, after the 2005 came out with the Cyclone Grey exterior, 400 hp, colored calipers and seeing a few without that gay bait spoiler and sissy rims,it's a very appealing car. Just not appealing as a GTO. In my opinion GM needs to change that or there will not be a 2007 GTO. I hope I'm wrong. Run along now...you're missing Nick@Nite.

Goat luver · #33 01-28-2005, 06:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Crow T. Robot:
He works for Dewy, Cheatum, and Howe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that's funny

red70goat · #34 01-28-2005, 06:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
to piss off the people who like the 2004 GTO.

>>> I only do that to people who think by mere virtue of ownership that they some how "get it" and the rest of us somehow don't.

I had been waiting 30 yrs for the return of this car. 1970 in my opinion, marked the last good year for this car. 30 yrs later and what did we we get? A Monaro?

That looks like a GrandAm gave birth to a Cavalier

However, I thought I'd see what the owners thought, maybe find a good reason to buy one. The best argument for buying one I've read yet was from TriPower: A 4 passenger 13 second car that can double as a daily driver. Hmmmm...Now that makes sense. Maybe not as a GTO but certainly as a modern day musclecar.

pont3 · #35 01-28-2005, 08:05 PM

You, of all people should hope and pray that 2007 brings another GTO so you will continue to have something to bash. With your attitude and expectations, 2007 will not produce anything that you deem appropriate for the GTO name. Your opinion is that 1970 was the last good year for a GTO, even though others consider subsequent years just as worthy. Therefore, your attitude towards the '04 is understandable. Why don't you visit the forum that is dedicated to people who support Lutz's efforts and actually own new GTOs. I was not even in the market for a new car when this car came out. There was nothing on the market that really interested me. All sorts of FWD 4dr wanna-be sports cars and a few rwd with astronomical price tags that just didn't excite me. I actually agree with you that it shouldn't have been called "GTO", but that was not our decision. It has been designated the GTO by its creator and case is closed, period. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and those who found it beautiful bought it. Maybe you should call Lutz direct and order him to build what you deem the appropriate GTO and to sell it for what you deem the appropriate price. I think what our pro-gto members are trying to articulate by "get it" is we have to change with the times,(to some extent at least)and we have to remind ourselves of recent history. What did we have available before this car?

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #36 01-29-2005, 01:13 AM

the whole drifting thing in my opinion is a import thing. if i can do donuts/powerslides in a empty parking lot i dont care if someone can do it at 60 MPH in a wrong wheel drive car when they pull the e brake. remember when pontiac was making the 389 and it got canned ? how about several other plans that got canned before they could go into production? or why GM wouldnt allow pontiac to put a 428 in a GTO in 68+.if GM thinks they can make something sell better then the GTO they would have no problem pulling the plug. they dont have to worry about pontiac making a better engine now. yeah i hope they can keep making the new GTO and improve the performance/looks but if GM has canned pontiac stuff in the past they wouldnt have a problem doing it again. but now its just a badge.

Mr_GTO · #37 01-29-2005, 05:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

"You claim that the GTO won't be made in 2007, I have PROVEN with LINKS that it will be built."
>>> So, computer links build a car do they?? Uhhh, yeah,Whatever

There are many more links disputing otherwise as to whether a 2007 will be built or not. Whether it will be built or not is a matter of opinion until the actual car rolls off the assembly line and is offered for sale to the general public tagged as a 2007 GTO. Given it's current downward sales spiral, lack of media coverage, cut back production, and bland looks I doubt we'll see one in 2007 unless GM builds a GTO with more visual and exsclusively GTO appeal. Personally, after the 2005 came out with the Cyclone Grey exterior, 400 hp, colored calipers and seeing a few without that gay bait spoiler and sissy rims,it's a very appealing car. Just not appealing as a GTO. In my opinion GM needs to change that or there will not be a 2007 GTO. I hope I'm wrong. Run along now...you're missing Nick@Nite. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh plenty of links saying the car isn't going to be built uh? Well, please, enlighten us all with your links to back up your hypothesis.

If not, PLEASE STFU about it.

red70goat · #38 01-29-2005, 06:18 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:

"You claim that the GTO won't be made in 2007, I have PROVEN with LINKS that it will be built."
>>> So, computer links build a car do they?? Uhhh, yeah,Whatever

There are many more links disputing otherwise as to whether a 2007 will be built or not. Whether it will be built or not is a matter of opinion until the actual car rolls off the assembly line and is offered for sale to the general public tagged as a 2007 GTO. Given it's current downward sales spiral, lack of media coverage, cut back production, and bland looks I doubt we'll see one in 2007 unless GM builds a GTO with more visual and exsclusively GTO appeal. Personally, after the 2005 came out with the Cyclone Grey exterior, 400 hp, colored calipers and seeing a few without that gay bait spoiler and sissy rims,it's a very appealing car. Just not appealing as a GTO. In my opinion GM needs to change that or there will not be a 2007 GTO. I hope I'm wrong. Run along now...you're missing Nick@Nite. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Oh plenty of links saying the car isn't going to be built uh?"
>>> Find in my post where I said there are links saying this car will not be built in the context of fact vs. opinion? Or did I say there are links disputing whether it will be built OR not? Or do you know the difference between the two? I doubt it. Given your "education" in law I would think you would know the difference. Criminal Justice and Sociology? Smells like a cop to me. You better learn to control that temper of yours if you're going to be spending time eating donuts and writing tickets to jaywalkers.

"Well, please, enlighten us all with your links to back up your hypothesis."
>>> You're a big boy now and know how to use a search engine. Put your Game-Boy on pause and find it yourself.

red70goat · #39 01-29-2005, 06:37 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pont3:
"Your opinion is that 1970 was the last good year for a GTO, even though others consider subsequent years just as worthy."
>>> And they have every right to think so and could probably make some vey valid reasons to support their claim...just as the 04 owners do.

"I think what our pro-gto members are trying to articulate by "get it" is we have to change with the times,"
>>> That's my whole point. GM didn't change with the times. They did little other than put a GM generic yet powerful engine in a tired exterior design that has been all too common amongst most manufacturers for the past decade or so. Given the overall satisfaction of current owners, many of them vintage GTO owners themselves, I am convinced it is a worthy modern day musclecar. If it wasn't badged as a GTO I'd probably consider one. We'll see what 06 brings. Hopefully GM will grow some balls, go back to the drawing board and come up with something new.

red70goat · #40 01-29-2005, 10:30 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
the whole drifting thing in my opinion is a import thing. if i can do donuts/powerslides in (QUOTE]

drifting

.... That ranks right up there as bungy jumping, ballroom dancing and curling as an Olympic "Sport"...... drifting