Tell Bob Lutz what you think of the GTO

[Tripower455]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
i dont contribute in the other forums not because i dont want to but because you guys grew up in the times when these cars were all over the road. me i was stuck with the 80's/90's. blah.( except a typhoon/syclone/grand national ) hell i was born in 82. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, that might explain some of the naivte, but not your closed mindedness. You claim that you don't discuss the old ones (even though you OWN one of them) out of ignorance. What's your excuse for "discussing" (bashing} the new one (which you DON'T own)?



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">to not know about the old i wont argue about the imports being a sh** box but if you compare then 0-60,1/4 mile,skid pad they (the 2 maybe 3) can hang with it. i dont like that. it just dont sound right. the evo VIII has sparco racing seats (in the front) from the factory. why ? i guess so you can stay planted in the seat when youre pulling 1g in the skidpad. carbon fiber wing and all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Age might also explain some of OUR closed mindedness concerning the imports that you mentioned. It also explains why we are here, discussing GTOs rather than going on the EvoXIIIIIIIIIII forum and discussing the merits of trying to squeeze some decent HP out of half an engine. I personally won't sacrifice comfort or V8 RWD for .1 in the 1320 or a fraction of a G on the skid pad, not to mention style. While you may not like the way it looks, it doesn't look like a slow and their furious ricer. One of my co workers has a Suburu WRX that he raves about. Whether it's faster than my GTO or not, I can't say (nor do I care), because you wouldn't catch my 40 y.o. butt sitting in it! It's not the fastest one, but one level down, yet, he's always telling me that my car is slow, because a different version of his car is faster than mine. And he is in his 50's!


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">insted of driving a new GTO theres a Typhoon at a car lot here in town id rather get that then the GTO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't that one of those ricer looking, Chevy pickup trucks with the wonderful 4.3 L v6 in them? Now you're comparing a GTO to a Buick (or is it Chevy?) powered PICKUP TRUCK? Trucks are for towing the boat and for going to Home Depot (except for the typhoon, which can't even tow a trailer). Other than being able to say that you have a fast truck (which is still slower than the new GTO), what is the point of one of these?

[Merdin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
... hell i was born in 82....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Knock me over with a feather.

I had assumed that the 'haters' of the new GTO were all 'old school' gearheads who couldn't adjust to the new world.

Just goes to show ya... never assume anything.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
insted of driving a new GTO theres a Typhoon at a car lot here in town id rather get that then the GTO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Want a hot rod out-of-the-box truck? Try the SSR, except you'll pay $18K more for it than the new GTO...and oh, BTW, it's also based on a Holden...the HSV Maloo.

[Jeff R]

JJE,

Don't let your inexperience keep you from posting when appropriate or asking questions. There's no such thing as a dumb question. I'm 40 years old and I did grow up with classic Pontiacs, but I have little or no experience with them as a gearhead per se. I'm just learning myself, started tinkering three years ago. I was a book worm in high school, one of the geeks, and although I know a lot about car values through osmosis (my dad was in the business for over 35 years) I'm far from a true gearhead or car expert...I will readily admit that. My advice to you is ask as many questions as your heart desires and try to keep an open mind with respect to old vs. new technologies. Learn as much as you can, and try not to develop predjudices about old vs. new, american vs. rice. You'll be much better off in the long run.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

Well, that might explain some of the naivte, but not your closed mindedness. You claim that you don't discuss the old ones (even though you OWN one of them) out of ignorance. What's your excuse for "discussing" (bashing} the new one (which you DON'T own)?

ill discuss anything on here.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">insted of driving a new GTO theres a Typhoon at a car lot here in town id rather get that then the GTO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't that one of those ricer looking, Chevy pickup trucks with the wonderful 4.3 L v6 in them? Now you're comparing a GTO to a Buick (or is it Chevy?) powered PICKUP TRUCK? Trucks are for towing the boat and for going to Home Depot (except for the typhoon, which can't even tow a trailer). Other than being able to say that you have a fast truck (which is still slower than the new GTO), what is the point of one of these?[/QUOTE]

maybe you were thinking of the extreme S10's ? the syclone was the truck. the typhoon was the suv. (GMC Jimmy body). only 3,000 of each ( syclone and typhoon) were made so you dont exactially see one of those around everyday. they have a 4.3 L turbo from the factory. it is slower then the GTO but i think it runs 13.6-8 in the 1/4. its AWD so you know traction is no problem. one upside i can think of is that when you can do the work to get a better turbo to work right ( fuel,computer...) you can get a boost controller (no boost spikes,more accurate boost levels, and fully adjustable from the drivers seat) so if you wanna race someone stoplight to stoplight you just turn a dial to kick it up and when you just wanna drive around town you can turn it down to make it more streetable. you cant do that with my 69 or any other n/a car for that matter. my roomie has a friend in colorado who takes his syclone out to bandimare and it was in the low 11's. thats putting it in the low 10's closer to sea level. and he can have the power whenever he wants it.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff R.:
JJE,

Don't let your inexperience keep you from posting when appropriate or asking questions. There's no such thing as a dumb question. I'm 40 years old and I did grow up with classic Pontiacs, but I have little or no experience with them as a gearhead per se. I'm just learning myself, started tinkering three years ago. I was a book worm in high school, one of the geeks, and although I know a lot about car values through osmosis (my dad was in the business for over 35 years) I'm far from a true gearhead or car expert...I will readily admit that. My advice to you is ask as many questions as your heart desires and try to keep an open mind with respect to old vs. new technologies. Learn as much as you can, and try not to develop predjudices about old vs. new, american vs. rice. You'll be much better off in the long run. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im not knocking new at all. i helped my dad or brother in law or anyone i could work on cars so i could learn since i was "knee high to a grasshopper" but it wasnt anythign major. more like brake jobs or dirty stuff that noone else wanted to do. i never did have the space to build a engine from scratch. i used to have a 89 GTA. i got the old car because i wanted the cubic inches. and ease of working on stuff. i was just talking to a guy today at work who said he had to change the water pump on a 93 GP. he said he had to tear down the whole front end ( power steering pump and i forgot what else) just to get to 1 bolt on the water pump he couldnt reach otherwise. it was a all day job he said. as fas as new i think the LS1 is a great engine. dont knwo anything about the LS2 but im sre its just as good if not better. but i cant afford to take my car to a shop that will charge $60+ when it brakes down and needs fixed. when i can work on a older car with no copmuters for free. i dont know if me working on a old car is a good thing or a bad thing but i can still try. i dont like rice because its usually slow,ugly,sounds like sh**,expensive to get to the 12's let alone faster,and anythign that has the displacement of if not less then a 2 liter bottle in my fridge just dont make sense to try to go fast. ill read more on here then i will post because i dont have the expierence on this stuff as others.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
insted of driving a new GTO theres a Typhoon at a car lot here in town id rather get that then the GTO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Want a hot rod out-of-the-box truck? Try the SSR, except you'll pay $18K more for it than the new GTO...and oh, BTW, it's also based on a Holden...the HSV Maloo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh id love one but i cant hang with the $50,000+ price tag.

[nikivee1954]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
insted of driving a new GTO theres a Typhoon at a car lot here in town id rather get that then the GTO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Want a hot rod out-of-the-box truck? Try the SSR, except you'll pay $18K more for it than the new GTO...and oh, BTW, it's also based on a Holden...the HSV Maloo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah... the SSR is NOT based on any Holden. Please show me where you read or heard that. The SSR is built on a modified Trailblazer platform and has nothing in common with the Holden.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
insted of driving a new GTO theres a Typhoon at a car lot here in town id rather get that then the GTO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Want a hot rod out-of-the-box truck? Try the SSR, except you'll pay $18K more for it than the new GTO...and oh, BTW, it's also based on a Holden...the HSV Maloo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah... the SSR is NOT based on any Holden. Please show me where you read or heard that. The SSR is built on a modified Trailblazer platform and has nothing in common with the Holden. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interior and same LS2. Check out the HSV Maloo, Nick. It is based off the Holden Ute which is available with the LS1 similar to the Monaro-HSV GTO relation ship. Of course, the body panels look nothing like the SSR and I "assume" that the frame is American. But the idea to put the LS1/LS2 in a hot rod pick-up is Holden's, right down to the 19 inch wheels.

http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vz/main.a...ain/maloo.html

[projectfolly]

Just my two cents..........
As previously pointed out the SSR is based on the Chevy Trailblazer chassis and as such has a full truck style frame. The SSR was designed at GM in Michigan in conjuction with ASC, and is built in a Lansing Michigan assembly plant where they used to build Buick Reattas.
Initially the SSR was powered by the 5.3 liter truck engine. For '05 it gets a 390 HP LS1/LS2 based engine and an optional 6 speed which would be common with the Holden.
The Maloo is a Holden designed and built body/frame integral(unibody)shared with other Holden platforms. I would agree that the hot rod pick-up concept is shared between the two, as well as the engine/trans but thats about it.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by projectfolly:
Just my two cents..........
As previously pointed out the SSR is based on the Chevy Trailblazer chassis and as such has a full truck style frame. The SSR was designed at GM in Michigan in conjuction with ASC, and is built in a Lansing Michigan assembly plant where they used to build Buick Reattas.
Initially the SSR was powered by the 5.3 liter truck engine. For '05 it gets a 390 HP LS1/LS2 based engine and an optional 6 speed which would be common with the Holden.
The Maloo is a Holden designed and built body/frame integral(unibody)shared with other Holden platforms. I would agree that the hot rod pick-up concept is shared between the two, as well as the engine/trans but thats about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Holden dropped the first LS1 into theirs in 2002, the seats in the 2005 SSR are very similar to the 2004 Maloo and the 2005 Maloo also gets the upgrade to the LS2.

I said "based on" not "built on". It was Holden's idea to produce a 160 MPH hot rod, low rider pick-up using the LS1 and the Tremec 6-speed. Chevy just ran with the idea. Also, Chevy's design looks better. Much better.

As for the frame, I meant that I assumed the SSR was an American built frame. I knew the Maloo to be an Aussie frame.

Holden did it first, Chevy did it better. That's the way I see it.

[rabon008]

Of course now back to the topic. Had Pontiac done the same thing that Chevy did with the SSR, that is: take the Holden 2+2 RWD, independent suspension, leather seated, muscle car, and redesigned it on an existing American chassis (if there is/was a suitable one). That would have made some of the current new GTO naysayers happy.

BUT: Such a car would still have been built with the LS1/LS2 and it would have cost $50K without any guarantees it would actually be better than the current GTO.

What was the topic of this thread? Oh yeah, thanks Mr. Lutz for bringing us this fine new GTO!

[nikivee1954]

Based on? That's stretching the facts a little wouldn't you say?

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
Based on? That's stretching the facts a little wouldn't you say? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only facts I represent are that in 2002 Holden put the LS1 in a low-rider, hot rod pick-up that could do 160 MPH. Chevy finally put the LS2 in the SSR this year, at the same time that Holden put the LS2 in the Maloo. The idea to make a really fast, hot rod pick-up straight from the factory was Holden's. Chevy just did it better (at least looks better on the outside, I like Holden's interior a little better...and I have driven neither so I don't know about performance).

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NikiVee1954:
Based on? That's stretching the facts a little wouldn't you say? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only facts I represent are that in 2002 Holden put the LS1 in a low-rider, hot rod pick-up that could do 160 MPH. Chevy finally put the LS2 in the SSR this year, at the same time that Holden put the LS2 in the Maloo. The idea to make a really fast, hot rod pick-up straight from the factory was Holden's. Chevy just did it better (at least looks better on the outside, I like Holden's interior a little better...and I have driven neither so I don't know about performance). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


One is car based, the other is truck based. They are not the same even in concept. One is car with a bed the other is a truck(trailblazer) that is a convertible with a bed.

[rabon008]

Wheelbase - Maloo=115.7 inches, SSR=116 inches
Length - Maloo=199 inches, SSR=192 inches
Width - Maloo=80.6 inches, SSR=78.6 inches
Towing capacity - Maloo=3500 pounds, SSR=2500 pounds
Cargo capacity - Maloo=46 cubic feet, SSR=22.5 cubic feet.
Wheels - Maloo=19in front&rear, SSR=19in front 20in rear.
Engine - Maloo=LS2, SSR=LS2
Transmission - Maloo= Tremec 6-speed or A4, SSR= Tremec 6-speed or A4.


The Ute (what the Maloo is "built on") is also available in a 1 tonne flat bed version that can tow up to 5500 pounds thanks to the multi-leaf rear suspension.

Yep, quess you guys are right. There are absolutely no similarities and the SSR definitely makes a better "truck".

I was wrong.

[Merdin]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
Yep, quess you guys are right. There are absolutely no similarities and the SSR definitely makes a better "truck".

I was wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rabon - you owe me a keyboard.... The scarcasm oozed off the screen and gummed up the keys. It got on my pnats too, but I think that'll come out.