Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here.

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-02-2020, 02:10 PM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default Any room for EFI bungs on BDS intake?

I think Steve Barcak was able to squeeze port injectors into his BDS intake years ago, any way at all to do it with EFI? I will have a little more room since the blower is only 7" wide as opposed to the footprint of a normal roots blower of 12.25"

Whipple 245AX

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #2  
Old 03-04-2020, 01:22 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Lots of luck, I was trying to figure out how to squeeze in injectors for a mechanical fuel injection!


GTO George

  #3  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:38 PM
ErikW's Avatar
ErikW ErikW is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: White Plains, MD USA
Posts: 1,378
Default Injector plate

This do you any good?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	hly-17-92_xl.jpg
Views:	201
Size:	27.0 KB
ID:	533953  

__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #4  
Old 03-06-2020, 05:54 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

I think he's looking for something that attaches to the intake for individual cylinder tuning......like me.


GTO George

  #5  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:30 PM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

Thanks Erik, Agreed it would need to go into the runners

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #6  
Old 03-06-2020, 09:06 PM
GTOGEORGE's Avatar
GTOGEORGE GTOGEORGE is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Rockwood, MICHIGAN
Posts: 8,884
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGTO View Post
Thanks Erik, Agreed it would need to go into the runners
I thought you wanted something into the intake port.


GTO George

  #7  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:22 PM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

The whipple will be here tomorrow, but reviewing the footprint of the 245 4.0l blower I bought and the footprint of a roots blower it appears I will have around 2.5" on each side of excess room. I have a few ideas that might work

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #8  
Old 03-12-2020, 01:10 AM
Jack Gifford's Avatar
Jack Gifford Jack Gifford is offline
formerly 'Pontiac Jack'
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Phelps, NY 14532
Posts: 10,176
Default

I don't know about the BDS manifold, but on my hemi V8 I managed to squeeze port nozzles into the top corners of the fabricated blower manifold.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	hemi_on_trailer0002.jpg
Views:	218
Size:	113.7 KB
ID:	534298  

__________________
Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons?
... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac?
... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967)
  #9  
Old 03-12-2020, 07:26 AM
taff2's Avatar
taff2 taff2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Wales in UK.
Posts: 2,172
Default

You don't have to weld in bungs, there are efi injectors available that thread into a tapped hole -Atomiser does them- they also have a threaded top so that you can run individual lines to them instead of using fuel rails.

  #10  
Old 03-12-2020, 04:58 PM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

Really?? Have a link?

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #11  
Old 03-12-2020, 07:46 PM
hojs69's Avatar
hojs69 hojs69 is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Pacific NW by way of Detroit, Tampa, San Diego
Posts: 287
Default

This help?

https://www.dragzine.com/news/fuel-u...ting-injector/

__________________
79 Trans Am WS6
71 Formula
72 Formula
71 Firebird
69 Firebird
  #12  
Old 03-13-2020, 07:03 AM
taff2's Avatar
taff2 taff2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Wales in UK.
Posts: 2,172
Default

Yes that's them, Turbo2 on YB is a dealer for them. Much safer than a fuel rail and easier to diy fit to any manifold. Shame their so pricey.

  #13  
Old 03-14-2020, 03:01 AM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

Just a wee bit

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #14  
Old 03-14-2020, 05:01 AM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

I've done it with mechanical injection. With a BDS and a 14-71. One injector in each intake runner, plus the 8 up in the hat. I never ran it of course, but that has little to do with whether or not you've got the room to fit the nozzle bodies. It just takes some massaging. I'll see if I can find some close up pics in the next few days.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
  #15  
Old 03-14-2020, 10:19 AM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

Thanks Brian that would be helpful

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #16  
Old 03-28-2020, 09:48 PM
AIR RAM AIR RAM is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Homestead FL
Posts: 412
Default

I had looked into this to run with a turbo set up and planned to use a Holley High Ram top and a single bore throttle body. I also planned to run a 4" inner cooler made to mount below the Holley high ram lid. This would have made room to mount injector bosses since the Holley high ram lid is not as wide as the BDS blower. All I would have had to do is make a base plate and weld that to the BDS lower intake manifold and remove unneeded material and add the injector bosses.

With that said, one issue that needed to be address is that the BDS intake does not have dividers between each paired intake port... it just runs one large runner to the head. So aside from crap air flow into the cylinder, running a single injector per cylinder could potentially bleed over to the opposing cylinder making tuning difficult to nail down. I planned to install dividers to increase air flow velocity into the ports and shroud the injectors and keep them separated from the paired cylinder...

so with minor work... yes.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

__________________
"The grass is not greener on the other side, its just fertilized with different $h!t"
  #17  
Old 03-29-2020, 11:18 AM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

That's good info thank you. I'm rethinking the whole BDS intake. I'm thinking of building another one out of a gutsram like I did on the drag car. The Whipple is not very tall and looks like it will all still fit under the hood.

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #18  
Old 03-29-2020, 04:24 PM
taff2's Avatar
taff2 taff2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Wales in UK.
Posts: 2,172
Default

A lot of blower manifolds have a siamesed intake runner - (no port wall dividers), it allows the head port to pull from a much bigger area and the airflow stream can be a straighter shot. I used a similar process on my previous turbo combo, I modified an Offy dual quad manifold and then cut out the port dividers, and then also cut out the port dividers in the cylinder heads - the airflow had a MUCH straighter shot at the valve. Cylinder to cylinder flow variations seemed to be minimal based on plug readings and driveability was pretty good considering the huge manifold plenum volume and dual 600 double pumpers. It is something I will be playing with again once I have the Holley sequential EFI system set up and baselined, as I believe there are power gains to be made here. I only tested this to just under a 1000 hp (at 17-18psi on factory 96 heads)

  #19  
Old 04-24-2020, 05:57 PM
AIR RAM AIR RAM is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Homestead FL
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
A lot of blower manifolds have a siamesed intake runner - (no port wall dividers), it allows the head port to pull from a much bigger area and the airflow stream can be a straighter shot. I used a similar process on my previous turbo combo, I modified an Offy dual quad manifold and then cut out the port dividers, and then also cut out the port dividers in the cylinder heads - the airflow had a MUCH straighter shot at the valve. Cylinder to cylinder flow variations seemed to be minimal based on plug readings and driveability was pretty good considering the huge manifold plenum volume and dual 600 double pumpers. It is something I will be playing with again once I have the Holley sequential EFI system set up and baselined, as I believe there are power gains to be made here. I only tested this to just under a 1000 hp (at 17-18psi on factory 96 heads)
Is this not something you expect to benifit a WOT application only? It would be interesting to see a DYNO of with and without dividers just to see where exactly in the RPM is effected... I just have a hard time seeing any benefit to such a mod at the low to mid range.... sure on a drag car I get it, who cares about low to mid range when your WOT from start to end. If there are gains to be had at WOT.... then it sounds promising. I cant see it being a worth while venture for a street/strip car that needs low to mid range power to reasonably function however I am always willing to learn something new. Looking forward to what you learn after more comparison testing with removing the center dividers.

SPEED SAFE, NICK

__________________
"The grass is not greener on the other side, its just fertilized with different $h!t"
  #20  
Old 04-25-2020, 05:33 AM
taff2's Avatar
taff2 taff2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Wales in UK.
Posts: 2,172
Default

Yes, drag race use only, though driveability was fine.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:07 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017