#61  
Old 02-16-2020, 10:23 PM
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Chris, congrats on an absolutely incredible score! This is such and enjoyable thread - just read throught the whole thing and I’m looking forward to following along as this car yields its secrets. I am especially jealous of the nice flat-sitting hood. My 74 Formy has the dreaded “bow” and it is one of the braced hoods. Keith’s engineering explanation debunking the myth that leaving them latched caused the bow was interesting, but I am curious as I am sure others are as to what, then, caused it and how do we correct it? Glad you don’t have to worry about it.

I’ll never forget the first time I saw a 71 Formula. It was Lucerne Blue with blue custom interior and it belonged to a guy named Billy Hawk in Chattanooga. I was driving my 71 LeMans to summer school at Baylor School and Billy was also going that summer. I thought that was the coolest front end and hood scoops. It was that car that inspired me to buy the 74 Formula when I was in College a few years later.

BJ

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  #62  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:34 PM
eaglesan13 eaglesan13 is offline
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Some engine/underhood pictures as requested. The second and third pictures show that the fenders and inner fender liners are the original early style.
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  #63  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:38 PM
eaglesan13 eaglesan13 is offline
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Block code (WC), block casting number (483677), block date code (I020), and carb number (7041273) and date code(2090).
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  #64  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:40 PM
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The first picture shows the top of the engine with the air cleaner off. There are some items that are missing, but the second picture shows some of the stuff that was in the trunk, such as the choke (I094), rear alternator bracket, the hot air stove (driver side), and one of the plastic elbows that attach to the air cleaner snorkels (the other one is missing).
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Last edited by eaglesan13; 02-17-2020 at 12:58 PM.
  #65  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:44 PM
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The ignition coil is not correct, but those are easy to find. The second picture shows the fuel line on the passenger side frame rail. Someone has spliced the line using a rubber hose, which is about a half inch from the exhaust manifold. This is why I have not been driving the car, if that hose fails it will spray gas onto the hot exhaust manifold, so obviously I need to replace that fuel line ASAP. The third picture shows the distributor number 1112073, (date code 0H18).

The last pictures are of the AM/FM Stereo radio that was in the trunk. It's in real nice condition, and I'm pretty sure it's the original radio.
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Last edited by eaglesan13; 02-17-2020 at 12:59 PM.
  #66  
Old 02-17-2020, 04:58 PM
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What's that cable on passenger side of choke pull Off? Macgyver thing?

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  #67  
Old 02-17-2020, 05:25 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge273 View Post
What's that cable on passenger side of choke pull Off? Macgyver thing?
Mike, It looks like a manual choke.

Dennis

  #68  
Old 02-17-2020, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesan13 View Post

The last pictures are of the AM/FM Stereo radio that was in the trunk. It's in real nice condition, and I'm pretty sure it's the original radio.
Yep, the original-looking part tag on it codes out as a '71 Firebird AM/FM Stereo unit. Nice!
Interesting, looking at the serial number on yours (1001112), it's only 15 units away from the '71 AM/FM Mono unit that came (in a box in the trunk) with the '70 T/A I recently re-purchased. What are the chances...?
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  #69  
Old 02-17-2020, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVERULD View Post
My 74 Formy has the dreaded “bow” and it is one of the braced hoods. Keith’s engineering explanation debunking the myth that leaving them latched caused the bow was interesting, but I am curious as I am sure others are as to what, then, caused it and how do we correct it? Glad you don’t have to worry about it.

BJ
BJ - I've wondered the same. It's been my observation that these things warped (if they were going to...) pretty quickly. I saw it commonly even back in the '70s.

My guess would be it had something to do with disparate temperatures of inner / outer panels when they were bonded together, or a different rate of shrinkage between the resin in the inner and outer panels after they were joined. It wouldn't take much....

Just a guess, though - my experience engineering hood systems is all around the metal variety.

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  #70  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglesan13 View Post
...and one of the plastic elbows that attach to the air cleaner snorkels (the other one is missing).
Did it have the clamp for it?

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  #71  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith k View Post
BJ - I've wondered the same. It's been my observation that these things warped (if they were going to...) pretty quickly. I saw it commonly even back in the '70s.

My guess would be it had something to do with disparate temperatures of inner / outer panels when they were bonded together, or a different rate of shrinkage between the resin in the inner and outer panels after they were joined. It wouldn't take much....

Just a guess, though - my experience engineering hood systems is all around the metal variety.
Keith K., That seems to make a lot of sense to me and I appreciate the knowledge you share with us Firebird fans. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason why some hoods warped and others didn't...any 45-50 year old Formula hood would have warped by now, so if you have a flat one, you are one of the fortunate folk.

Dennis

  #72  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVERULD View Post
Chris, congrats on an absolutely incredible score! This is such and enjoyable thread - just read throught the whole thing and I’m looking forward to following along as this car yields its secrets. I am especially jealous of the nice flat-sitting hood. My 74 Formy has the dreaded “bow” and it is one of the braced hoods. Keith’s engineering explanation debunking the myth that leaving them latched caused the bow was interesting, but I am curious as I am sure others are as to what, then, caused it and how do we correct it? Glad you don’t have to worry about it.

I’ll never forget the first time I saw a 71 Formula. It was Lucerne Blue with blue custom interior and it belonged to a guy named Billy Hawk in Chattanooga. I was driving my 71 LeMans to summer school at Baylor School and Billy was also going that summer. I thought that was the coolest front end and hood scoops. It was that car that inspired me to buy the 74 Formula when I was in College a few years later.

BJ
Overuld,

I'm going through the same hood problem on my "73 TA. The body guy is working on it this week. He seems to think he can save it. If he can save it, I'll let you know what was done.

Eaglesan13...Sorry for the interruption.

Jim


Last edited by napster; 02-18-2020 at 12:13 PM.
  #73  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:52 PM
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Thanks Chris, Great detail engine shots and so cool to see.

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  #74  
Old 02-18-2020, 02:09 PM
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that chevrolet mechanical choke with a choke cable setup on the car is quite funny to me...
I never understood why people would do stuff like this;
I had my car setup, on correct-ish parts, on a shoe-string budget, and limited knowledge, and my car would start reliably all year round.

I too appreciate the pictures being shared;
I love to see (relatively) un-molested car s like this.

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  #75  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:48 PM
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as far as the Formula hoods bowing or not, I have always felt it was based on the hood hinge adjustment. Depending on how the front and rear hinge to fender bolts are adjusted up/down, there is anywhere from no upward force to a decent amount of force in their "resting" position. I have a bulge free Formula hood on my '72 and I can temporarily put the bulge back in it just by adjusting the angle of the resting position of the front and rear hinge to fender bolts. The hood pops up more easily when it's in that upward angled position because that angle of the hinges is adding updward force on then hood. That's why the bulge is usually right in front of the forward hinge to hood bolt.
Keith is correct that the closed hinge itself, when in the closed/resting position, is not exerting any upward force by itself. But the angle of the hinge to hood plate can be if it's angled too far upward in the front, because you basically have to slightly bend the hood every time you close it to engage the hood latch. Once the bow get's into the hood/under support, adjusting the hinge to fender bolts to correct the angle of the hinge is not going to fully fix the bow. My hood took close to 400lbs. in the middle of it on saw horses for around a year to get it straight again.

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  #76  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:15 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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They may have used the "blocked-off exhaust port" intake gaskets , and then converted to the manual choke to compensate.

Something to verify if considering putting the choke assy back to factory function.

I like the current paint color -whatever it is.
Thanks for sharing the story/car/pictures.
Would change very very little, or nothing, about it at all.
...except that fuel line you mentioned

  #77  
Old 02-18-2020, 08:55 PM
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No, unfortunately the clamp is missing.

Regarding the elbow itself, the elbow that came with this car is different than what I used on my 71 trans am. The ones on the t/a have one flat spot (1st picture), while the one that came with the Formula (3rd and 4th pictures) has two flat spots. I'm not sure which is correct, but I'll need the correct ones, along with the correct clamps (2nd picture).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Held for Ransom View Post
Did it have the clamp for it?
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  #78  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:14 PM
eaglesan13 eaglesan13 is offline
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Baron,

The car does have a manual choke cable on it. I hadn't thought that the exhaust port might have been blocked off, but maybe that's why the factory choke coil was removed and sitting in a box in the trunk when I got the car. The shields are missing from the exhaust crossover, and I need to pull the intake to put the shields on anyway, so I'll check the ports when I get it apart. Thanks for the heads-up.

Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin View Post
They may have used the "blocked-off exhaust port" intake gaskets , and then converted to the manual choke to compensate.

Something to verify if considering putting the choke assy back to factory function.

I like the current paint color -whatever it is.
Thanks for sharing the story/car/pictures.
Would change very very little, or nothing, about it at all.
...except that fuel line you mentioned

  #79  
Old 02-18-2020, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicksGTO View Post
as far as the Formula hoods bowing or not, I have always felt it was based on the hood hinge adjustment. Depending on how the front and rear hinge to fender bolts are adjusted up/down, there is anywhere from no upward force to a decent amount of force in their "resting" position. I have a bulge free Formula hood on my '72 and I can temporarily put the bulge back in it just by adjusting the angle of the resting position of the front and rear hinge to fender bolts. The hood pops up more easily when it's in that upward angled position because that angle of the hinges is adding updward force on then hood. That's why the bulge is usually right in front of the forward hinge to hood bolt.
Keith is correct that the closed hinge itself, when in the closed/resting position, is not exerting any upward force by itself. But the angle of the hinge to hood plate can be if it's angled too far upward in the front, because you basically have to slightly bend the hood every time you close it to engage the hood latch. Once the bow get's into the hood/under support, adjusting the hinge to fender bolts to correct the angle of the hinge is not going to fully fix the bow. My hood took close to 400lbs. in the middle of it on saw horses for around a year to get it straight again.
Rick, Good points. Agreed - hinge alignment / orientation is definitely another thing to pay attention to when setting up a hood on these cars.

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  #80  
Old 03-01-2020, 03:29 PM
eaglesan13 eaglesan13 is offline
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Default Fuel line

I had the hoods up on both cars today and noticed that the fuel lines from the fuel pump to the carb are different. As stated earlier in this thread, they're both Norwood cars built during the second week of February, and both cars have their original carbs (7041267 on the trans am and 7041273 on the Formula), so I would expect the fuel lines would be the same. However, the line on the trans am goes straight into the fuel nut on the carb, whereas the line on the Formula has the bend in it to go around the thermostat housing like the 1970 fuel line did. Both lines appear to be original.
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