[Gator67]

Anyone running a lithium-ion battery on a mostly street driven car? I know they need a special charger, but wondering if they work with a conventional electrical system and alternator, or whether something special is needed? Although expensive, the size and weight opens up a lot of options for placement in my pro-touring project.

[Chief of the 60's]

I still don't trust them. They have a documented history of fires. Until they get to the bottom of that I'll stick with an Interstate lead/acid battery.

[OG68]

I've been in the market for a new Travel Trailer and have noticed Lithium batteries are now an option on the Lance. I believe the option comes with solar panels and a special charger but...
when on the road it's being charged by the tow vehicle alternator.

[chiphead]

Got a link to a datasheet? A real Li-ion battery CANNOT be overcharged without inducing failure. High cell voltage makes the metallic lithium ions plate on the anode and cause an internal short. All Li-ion batteries require a special charger external to the battery, a battery management system (BMS) to track charge cycles and prevent excessive discharge, AND internal fault protection circuits. Sometimes the BMS is built into the pack, sometimes its in the charger/ESC (like RC toy batteries). I suppose a small li-ion or li-iron phosphate battery with an internal charger/BMS/protection could be used as a car starter battery, but it'd be more expensive than a lead/acid with similar capacity.

So devils in the details when it comes to li-ion.

[Goatracer1]

Li battery just started house fire locally that burnt down house. I don't trust them even though my pacemaker has one.

[dataway]

Li-ion and Li-iron batteries have been used by motorcycles (sportbikes) for several years now. Main reason being weight savings. The Li-ion require a special charger ... not sure about the Li-Iron. Not sure how the bike charging systems works with them, but evidently they are bolt in replacement, I guess it's possible they require some kind of add-on to the charging system.

[hobbygto65]

Most new vehicles have a usb port for charging cell phones, wouldn't that be the same thing. I also have surface charger in my new Tacoma.

[dataway]

I could be wrong, but I think in most USB devices the device handles the charging details while the USB port just provides a certain volt/mamp supply. For instance a cell phone will have it's own circuitry to handle the charging.

I assume the Li-ion motorcycle batteries probably have their own built in circuitry to handle the "in use" charging.

[Skip Fix]

Originally Posted by Goatracer1

Li battery just started house fire locally that burnt down house. I don't trust them even though my pacemaker has one.

One of my personal injury lawyer friends told me LI batteries do cause fires-even things like Ryobi tool chargers!

[hgerhardt]

Lithium-Iron (LiFePO) batteries are much safer than Lithium-ion and can be used with stock charging systems. Make sure what you get has a BMS (battery management system). Check out https://earthxbatteries.com/ to get educated about Li batteries in general.

[Will]

Originally Posted by dataway

I could be wrong, but I think in most USB devices the device handles the charging details while the USB port just provides a certain volt/mamp supply. For instance a cell phone will have it's own circuitry to handle the charging.
....

Yes.

All a USB port is doing is supplying a specified voltage and amperage capacity, nothing more.

[dataway]

Old thread ... but I just put an EarthX Lithium-Iron battery in my motorcycle. It's a very high compression, 1000cc V-twin, four valve, four gear driven cams, FI beast that eats conventional batteries like clockwork. Put in the biggest Lithium battery that would fit .. the bike freakin starts like it never has since I bought it 20 years ago.

Studied up on Lithium Iron .. very different than typical Lithium batteries as found in Teslas, phones etc. It's a "starting battery" not made for long term steady drain like an EV battery. Very safe, and approved for use in aircraft, and now being used by several OEM vehicle manufacturers.

The one I bought has a built in Battery Management System. Can't be over charged or over depleted. Can be recharged in a fraction of the time of Lead Acid. One downside ... when it "dies" it does so with no warning, no "running down" it just stops. Much like a modern cordless tool. Can't be jumped by a conventional battery, can be jumped by another Lithium battery.

Evidently people are getting them to last 10 ten years ... often never being once on a charger.

I think I'm going to get a Lithium Jump-Pack anyway, just in case.

[mzbk2l]

Originally Posted by dataway

Old thread ... but I just put an EarthX Lithium-Iron battery in my motorcycle. It's a very high compression, 1000cc V-twin, four valve, four gear driven cams, FI beast that eats conventional batteries like clockwork. Put in the biggest Lithium battery that would fit .. the bike freakin starts like it never has since I bought it 20 years ago.

I have 9-year-old Battery Tender brand Li-Iron batteries in my V-Max, Hayabusa, and CB650. They have such high capacity that all three bikes use the same battery model! I also noticed the immediately improved starting and idle... I'm a believer for sure. I've been hoping to see batteries like that for my cars, as well, but no luck yet.

[XLR8STEVE]

I have been running a Braille I34X for three years now. I do have the special charger. Both are not cheap. It has been the best battery I've had. I only put the charger on it maybe once during the winter just to make sure and it only takes 15 min to complete the charge.

I am careful not to do anything strange, jump start another car or use that battery to test anything.

My alt is a 150A Powermaster. Nothing special. Elec fans, fuel pump, water pump, EFI etc so lots of load.

At only 11 lb I can keep it in the front of the car down to 10.0 or 135.

[dataway]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

I have 9-year-old Battery Tender brand Li-Iron batteries in my V-Max, Hayabusa, and CB650. They have such high capacity that all three bikes use the same battery model! I also noticed the immediately improved starting and idle... I'm a believer for sure. I've been hoping to see batteries like that for my cars, as well, but no luck yet.

Now I thought it was my imagination that it seemed to run better, but after reading some reports by motorcycle guys I trust I find that it's a common trait. With a conventional battery it would start (this bike has an FI enrichment knob like a choke) and sputter a bit, might die once, settle into a rough idle for a couple of minutes then smooth out and you can take the "choke" off. With the Lithium battery it just starts right up and idles nice within moments.

I'm guessing it's the voltage drop you see with a Lead Acid battery after starting that messes with the electronics ... specially on a bike like this where the OEM battery size is about 20% smaller than it should be. After a couple minutes on the alternator the Lead Acid battery charges up to a voltage that the electronics like.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

I still don't trust them. They have a documented history of fires. Until they get to the bottom of that I'll stick with an Interstate lead/acid battery.

Yep. UPS lost an MD-11 freighter and crew in Saudi Arabia due to lithium-ion batteries. Boeing had to ground the entire 787 fleet due to lithium-ion batteries overheating in the cabin.

[dataway]

Those were not Lithium Iron (LiFePo) batteries, but the the more common type of Lithium-Cobalt, as found in phones, EV's etc. LiFePo batteries are much safer, but are unsuitable for use in things like rechargeable devices that constantly have large swings in state of charge.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by dataway

Those were not Lithium Iron (LiFePo) batteries, but the the more common type of Lithium-Cobalt, as found in phones, EV's etc. LiFePo batteries are much safer, but are unsuitable for use in things like rechargeable devices that constantly have large swings in state of charge.

Agreed. I’m not a fan of lithium-ion or NiCad batteries. Both can be incredibly unstable.