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NBF823 · 01-05-2018, 12:22 PM

Im having a hard time finding camshafts for an old motor I have.

I had two sets, but I sent one out for a regrind. Another story.

So I have I have not enough cores, and the cores themselves cant be ground to where I want them.

So, anyone ever make your own cores?

Where do you get 5150 round bar?

Know of a shop that will induction harden lobes on a hobbyist budget?

I dont currently have a cam grinder, but it doest look too bad. Thinking I can throw a rotary encoder on my lathe and cnc two axis, or I can build a specific pattern grinder possibly - not my biggest forseen hurdle at this point.

Biggest concern is who will harden lobes after rough grind, before finish grind?

Anything else I need to know?

Flat tappet. 34mm solid lifters DLC coated. Cam on bucket, shim under bucket.

Thanks

dataway · 01-05-2018, 02:37 PM

Can't the lobes on the cores you have be built up and then remachined and hardened?

That's the way it's done with hard to find old vintage motorcycle cams.

Companies like http://www.webcamshafts.com/ should be able to take care of whatever you need.

NBF823 · 01-05-2018, 03:06 PM

I did write webcams. They never replied.

I sent them to camsnortheast. Told me the day he got them that he couldnt grind them.

Next up would be coltcams.

dataway · 01-05-2018, 04:14 PM

I know knife makers use 5150. Not sure where they get it.

Hard to believe no one out there does custom, from scratch grinds. Course machine set up would have to be a pain if it's something they don't have the program for already.

NBF823 · 01-05-2018, 05:31 PM

Pretty much all of the 5150 that I can find at the knife sites is flat bar.

8620 is easy to find, but the carburizing process ruled that out.

I just got my first cnc together now, so I think making a master lobe is going to get somewhat easier. Really my cad and mastercam skill sets are whats slowing me regarding that - that and the super cold weather.

Anyway, hardening lobes once I find a 5150 supplier seems to be a hurdle. Dont forget Im a total novice at machining and engineering too - gotta learn sometime.

marxjunk · 01-05-2018, 06:26 PM

when you say old motor...what motor are you talking about? be specific...i have a guy that can get NOS cores/blanks...he comes up with weird stuff...he knows a guy that bought a bunch of Crane blanks when they went out of business...like tons...(weight) literally

NBF823 · 01-05-2018, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marxjunk

when you say old motor...what motor are you talking about? be specific...i have a guy that can get NOS cores/blanks...he comes up with weird stuff...he knows a guy that bought a bunch of Crane blanks when they went out of business...like tons...(weight) literally

Nissan FJ20

The only known source of new cams is a guy by the name of Mark Ashford. $1500

Its getting lucky and finding old race cams or regrinds.

Shoulda built a honda F20c, or even a BMW S14

Sirrotica · 01-05-2018, 10:04 PM

Contact Jack Gifford, PY member name (formerly Pontiac Jack), he had custom camshafts made for his DOHC M/T hemi headed 4 cylinder project. He has engineered some pretty challenging Pontiac projects and ought to fill you in who made his custom camshafts.

marxjunk · 01-05-2018, 10:10 PM

I called my buddy...no dice....

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

NBF823 · 01-05-2018, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marxjunk

I called my buddy...no dice....

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Thanks

NBF823 · 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Contact Jack Gifford, PY member name (formerly Pontiac Jack), he had custom camshafts made for his DOHC M/T hemi headed 4 cylinder project. He has engineered some pretty challenging Pontiac projects and ought to fill you in who made his custom camshafts.

I think the M/T build used Pontiac cams with just some of the lobes used. I'll read the thread again to check. Good lead - thanks.

Nope, your right. He has custom roller/rocker arrangements in that.

Thanks again.

Jack Gifford · 01-06-2018, 03:41 AM

My hemi four cylinder project is so lengthy that I surely didn't need to tackle camshaft fabrication also!
I just drew up a print of the cams I needed and paid big bucks ($1,600 each) for Crane to create them (from bar stock). I'm very happy with them- tolerances are spot-on my specifications. I dealt with Bob Freund at Crane. Although I selected cam profiles from their catalog, some profile descriptors were based on specific rocker ratios (duration @ .050", etc.). Since my finger followers are 1:2 ratio (vs typical 1.5 ratio rockers), Bob had to supply me with duration values @ .0375". He also dug up maximum negative acceleration values of the various profiles, so I could select ones to not exceed 2x10^(-4) inches/degree-squared.
I don't know the steel alloy nor the treatment schedule- I just defaulted that specification to their normal roller tappet practices.
Although expensive- and not quick either- I was satisfied with Crane's services.

NBF823 · 01-06-2018, 04:53 PM

Thanks Jack. Thats looking very close to Mark Ashford's prices, which may be my end route.

Rigth now Im thinking maybe S7 tool steel. Through-harden. On monday i'll write the local heat treaters again and ask if they can harden and anneal S7 to where I want it. The steel costs alot more, but basically I think its the easiest to get the correct HRC lobes.

Hopefully itll go well with the oem dlc lifters. Im not exactly surrounded by engineers and machinists in my personal life, so I may be chalking up a bit to education.

If they say no, or are stupid expensive, I wonder if I could get away with a single kiln? S7 is supposedly air cooled and the kiln may drop to anneal temp in the time the cams drop from hardening temp? That whole fiasco would cost more in ovens and destructive testing and errors, bit itd leave me with a kiln and the rockwell tester I always wanted, and possibly any cam I want in any profile along with alot of other parts and tools as hard as I want them.

Looks like a fight to keep the budget in black this year guys

See what the treaters say on Monday. I dont know my specific route yet - just pounding out all the options.

madokie · 01-09-2018, 01:19 AM

have u tried Kams inc here in OKC ?? i have not done buisness w them but they look qualified to make a new cam from their web site.

NBF823 · 01-09-2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madokie

have u tried Kams inc here in OKC ?? i have not done buisness w them but they look qualified to make a new cam from their web site.

Thanks for the lead. Id like to know what they know, or even attend that seminar they have.

Heybuck · 01-09-2018, 07:05 PM

My son-in-law's father used these people to resurrect a cam for his old Suzuki Rocky. I know he's been happy with the job for some time now.

www.camtechcams.com.au/niss_4cyl_fj20.html

If you needed any assistance, just let me know. Happy to help out.

NBF823 · 01-09-2018, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heybuck

My son-in-law's father used these people to resurrect a cam for his old Suzuki Rocky. I know he's been happy with the job for some time now.

www.camtechcams.com.au/niss_4cyl_fj20.html

If you needed any assistance, just let me know. Happy to help out.

Thanks. Land of the FJ down there

. When I sent my cam to cams northeast, I gave them camtechcam's profile, from that very site. If I do opt to send them to colt, I'd be asking for that same profile. I'm not sure if I should send them to Australia or not.

I'm a little worried about sending them half way around the globe, then back with cores being so hard to get, that, and I'm curious about more than that. After looking at what Hondas and BMW S14s are doing, a 300adv cam may not be out of the question - not possible on a stock cam core as far as I know. I've been raised V8, so running huge cam in a tiny motor - new ground.

I've gotten a lot new from Australia for the motor; rods, balancer, springs, and main studs. And the bulk of the English speaking people in the world building FJs are down there as well as a website for the motor. Really a great car country.

My current game plan is swinging towards making my own so I'm not stuck behind the 8 ball on cams. My collection consists of two complete FJs, so hopefully I can pull through in case of a failure, which I hope doesn't happen

Thanks again

Heybuck · 01-10-2018, 05:59 AM

I looked at what FJ20 bits were for sale in Australia today. Saw this. Sort of thing you never need till you REALLY want one and cannot find it!!

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wann...ilt/1170102628

NBF823 · 01-10-2018, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heybuck

I looked at what FJ20 bits were for sale in Australia today. Saw this. Sort of thing you never need till you REALLY want one and cannot find it!!

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wann...ilt/1170102628

Cool find.

Lots of interesting things going on there. Notice how the area around the lifters are cut out, which I think is for an increasing more extinct aftermarket big or factory rally cam. Also there's a lot of specs on the cam sheet, one of which is how it lists a rocker ratio of 1.1.

If he's letting that one go, I wonder what the one he's keeping is like.

Sometime back, a guy by the Name of Ben Diggles had one of his head for sale for about 3k, he was breaking into the 9s in a production chassis. Once there was a photo of all the cv axles he broke in a season - a pile of them.

Thanks

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