[njsteve]

Originally Posted by Norwood

Defenintly molded in color, I once owned an original paint car

Here's a photo of the '72 Lucerne Blue polyethylene valance I repaired years ago. Molded in solid blue color.

One of the edges before and after welding with blue polyethylene rods. And test fitting.

[Rocky Rotella]

I was fortunate enough to find an engineering document for the molded-in-color plastic valance.

It suggests that all molded-in-color components (at least early on) were molded in a solid color that matched the general exterior finish. A metallic clear was then sprayed over it to mimic the metallic exterior.

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

I was fortunate enough to find an engineering document for the molded-in-color plastic valance.

It suggests that all molded-in-color components (at least early on) were molded in a solid color that matched the general exterior finish. A metallic clear was then sprayed over it to mimic the metallic exterior.

In the book?

[RamAir]

Is the book close Rocky?

[Rocky Rotella]

Originally Posted by Norwood

In the book?

Unfortunately, the document isn't in the book, but that same statement is.

[Rocky Rotella]

Originally Posted by RamAir

Is the book close Rocky?

It's literally due out any day now!

[notime]

I still don't know how to enter a quote on here but why do you think that this formula you guys are coming up with is the "original" formula from the paint machine that was used on these cars in 1973 from the Norwood plant? You don't! I could come up with a half a dozen formulas for it that are all different. Have any of you ever owned a body shop and deal with paint manufacturers on a regular basis? Manufacturers change formulas just about every year because they have to change toners to get other colors required from the auto manufacturers, therefore the formulas change to use those new toners and usually don't match. This is where the body shop has to learn how to tint colors to match. Most body shops just blend a panel and is acceptable to the regular population and insurance companies. Doesn't mean it matches and most people don't even notice it anyhow as im sure most commenting on here are that same person who cannot see colors in a formula like I can. I matched the original color on that car dead on to the original color with the metallic in it like it had from the factory no matter how it got there and for the last FN time, I have documented several other original paint cars that had it in there. Once again, I never said they all had it but some did. And most people that looked at the car never even noticed it when seeing it in person as what I suspect is the case with some of the nay sayers because you never looked close enough to notice. Also, if you had a spoiler without it on the car and the body had it, you wouldn't even notice a difference because its so miniscule anyhow. Give up, I'm right!

[Norwood]

I never doubt you. But You said “you guys” only one person posted a formula. I’m sure that books containing the formulas are dated so that is easy enough. Have you ever seen a Brewster green paint formula that included metallic ?

[nas t eh]

Hmm, if I was looking for an excuse to paint a BG 73 TA metallic did I just get it? I don't think so because even though/if some of the factory cars had it, it was pretty much unnoticeable. If I wanted to put metallic BG on my car, I'd want to be metallic enough to make a difference, otherwise why bother?

[notime]

Because I do concours cars to the limit! Now heres a question, who was the original manufacturer of the paint back then? Answer: Whoever was the cheapest. With that said, there could have been numerous manufacturers in one year. I'm not saying there was and im not saying I know either, LOL, but it could have happened. Craig, No, I have never seen a formula with metallic in it. However, that was never my point. The original question was, has anyone ever seen metallic in an original paint Brewster car? and my question was answered yes by several people. The question was NOT if it was in the formula. I could care less what the thousands of formulas are for 1 color cause non of them match the original color.I don't have to apologize, but sorry, I'm a color freak and the smallest details matter to me!

[Norwood]

Wow I feel shame now ;( For you pleasure https://youtu.be/eGKdle1bbvo

[Nidan73sd]

Originally Posted by frank.g

Hi, Guys. Somehow, my conversation got mixed up a bit. I bought my Brewster Green TA from the original owner in 1987. It was a low mileage, garage kept original car, including the paint. The foilers and front spoiler were not in good shape, so I bought replacements. Replacements were not molded to color, so I had them painted. This is the only unoriginal paint on the car.

Like others have mentioned, I always felt that Brewster Green is not metallic, because of the "molded to color" plastic parts on a Trans Am. I am pretty certain that there is no dispute about Cameo White and Buccaneer Red being non-metallic paint. I can't imagine Pontiac would try to figure out molding a metallic color in one TA color only. But, I don't have the best eyes, and I haven't put the paint under any form of magnification as some others have done.

Darrell, I will tell you that I am planning to bring the SD to the 2018 TA Nationals. You and anyone who wants, can inspect it for yourselves and draw your own conclusions. I guarantee it's the paint that Pontiac put on the car back in 1973, and the car has been garaged all it's life, so it may be the best example of original Brewster Green paint. See you all in August.

thanks for posting Frank. My Brewster SD was re-painted in 1988 in acrylic lacquer after body was stripped. Door jambs and under the trunk look factory to me but I could be wrong. No metallic there whatsoever though I never really eyeballed it closely..

[John V.]

Since posting in 2015, I repurchased the '73 BG TA I owned from '78-'80. Was resprayed black when I bought it in '78 and had been resprayed but still black in the years subsequent to '80 when I sold it. However, I have spotted the original BG in a couple "hidden" areas, haven't tried to put a bright light to them so can't say what the appearance is.

notime, I admire what you have done to try to research the possibility of metallic in the factory BG paint.

The possibility that a virtually undetectable amount of alum was added to the formula to aid in coverage is an interesting possibility. You have a world more paint expertise than me but as a layman, I am still wondering if BG could have the appearance, under bright light, of a metallic without actually having any alum in the mix. Maybe it can't but I never saw anything in this thread suggesting it was an impossibility.

I also suggested that the research could be broadened to include the Camaro guys since Chevy also offered the Code 48 color in '73, calling it Midnight Green. Why not see what response you could get from the Chevy side? Didn't Norwood also build Camaros in '73?

One thing that I disagree with is the idea that GM chose the cheapest vendor to supply the paint.

Possibly things were different by '73, but in the mid '60s I have seen documentation that makes it obvious that GM was utilizing all 3 paint suppliers in a way that ensured they all enjoyed a certain amount of business.

The way it worked by my understanding is that some Plants were supplied by a particular paint vendor, other Plants were supplied by another vendor, and still others got particular colors from one vendor and other colors from another.

IIRC, the Pontiac Plant was supplied entirely by Dupont at that time.

Giving all the biz to the lowest bidder put GM at risk of being shut down if that supplier suddenly had a work stoppage or some other production calamity. GM took care to ensure that would never happen.

I have no idea which vendor supplied Norwood in '73 with BG but I don't think it was strictly based on low bid.

But I also understand that even with proof that there was no alum in the published formula actually used for the paint in '73, you are seeing alum in the paint. Alum reflects light in a paint in a way that creates a certain appearance. If that effect is not possible without alum and there is no other explanation for what you and others are seeing in BG, I have no argument. I'm just trying to understand if there might be an alternate explanation for what you are seeing that would give the illusion of alum in the absence of it. You have explained that it cannot be caused by the yellow. Again, I lack expertise, but BG becomes green upon the mixing of Blue and Yellow. Is it conceivable that an incomplete mixing of these pigments would create an appearance of something that isn't green? Just asking and wondering.

[The Boss]

At this point I don't think Darrell needs to check with anything/anyone especially the Chevy crowd. The car he restored had it on it originally, and it has it on it now. During that process he also identified other cars that had the same (defect) paint. It doesn't have to be all of them, some of them is fine.

The car was restored as built, not as someone thinks it was built or should have been built and that's what matters.

There doesn't have to be a consensus here - it is what it is.

[notime]

Thank you Chris.

[notime]

Finally found time to find these pics and were able to load them. Here is 1 of the cowl, bottom of mirror, door jamb and I carefully sanded through the repaint to the original paint on rear spoiler quarter cap and buffed it.

[weranc55]

Originally Posted by notime

Finally found time to find these pics and were able to load them. Here is 1 of the cowl, bottom of mirror, door jamb and I carefully sanded through the repaint to the original paint on rear spoiler quarter cap and buffed it.

Good to see you back here causing trouble. Lol.