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#81
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#82
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Just to add one more log to the fire...
I ran the Lunati Morels and they were horribly noisy (and not in the cool mechanical lifter way either). I spoke with a tech at Crower about their offering and he was frank about what they do. He told me they start with the Johnson HR lifter and bench test each before re-packing them under the Crower name. He says they do get rejects. I put the Crowers in and my valve train is very quite during start and after everything is heated-up. I only preload my lifters to 1/4 turn and I run straight 30wt. My idle is 800 and oil pressure is 13~15psi. Obviously, I can't verify they really "bench-test" each lifter but I'm happy with the set I got FWIW.
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Only a pawn in game of life. |
#83
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$800.00 is steep, made steeper by other valvetrain components, but I would certainly consider the upgrade if it would help.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#84
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The Crowers have been talked about before and there was mention back then that they are reboxed Johnsons.
It's likely the same lifter that Paul Carter sells that he buys straight from Johnson, that is, when they are available. Availability has been hit and miss. When I was doing this recent 455 that's what I wanted to buy. Unfortunately at that time Paul had already been waiting 6 months and there was no ETA on their arrival. They produce them in batches and they weren't high up on the priority list. |
#85
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I think the noises get louder proportional to how much money is in the motor. My motor was expensive, so every time I hear a noise Im like "What is that?! Is that a rod bearing?!"
So I wish they were quieter just because it would make my blood pressure go down. Ive come close to re-adjusting the valves a few times, but it runs fine so I always talk myself out of it.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
The Following User Says Thank You to RocktimusPryme For This Useful Post: | ||
#86
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#87
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"Butler says that since an engine with smaller-diameter main journals (3-inch) and shorter-stroke crankshafts (4.21-inch or less) is generally less stressful on the bearings, a 60-psi pump may provide adequate lubrication in a modified engine, but an 80-psi pump is a better choice. He says any performance engine with 3.25-inch-diameter main journals and/or a stroker length greater than 4.21 inches should use an 80-psi pump. The greater oil pressure associated with the 80-psi pump improves the strength of the oil film, and better protects the bearings in large journal and/or long-stroke applications, he adds. Common hobbyist concerns when using an 80-psi oil pump in a street engine include excessive parasitic loss, bearing wash, and premature distributor and/or cam gear wear. He continues: We've run as much as 100-psi on some engines and have never experienced any bearing wash issues. Excessive distributor or cam gear wear can result, particularly with a bronze gear, but we consider positive cam-gear oiling a must when running a roller camshaft, and we found that it significantly improves distributor gear life. One area that many hobbyists overlook when selecting an oil pump for a particular engine is camshaft type. Some of the aggressive hydraulic- roller-lobe profiles available today and the high-pressure valvesprings required to effectively maintain valvetrain stability can cause the roller lifters hydraulic internals to bleed down too quickly, and that can create a performance loss. In these instances, additional pressure (75 psi or more) is required to keep the hydraulic lifters working properly, states Butler." Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...#ixzz3mfkpxR00
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears '64 LeMans 400/461, #16 Heads, HR 230/236, TKO600, 9inch Rear, 3.89 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: Non-running project |
#88
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I have read most of this post. I have near the same cam and heads that author of thread has. Mine Comp HR 236/242/116 and Edelbrock round ports. I used Crower lifters and Crower roller rockers. The push rods were set up using a adjustable push rod and a dial indicator to get the correct Length and lift at valve. contact point is dead center on valve. Valves are adjusted 1/2 turn down.
valve train has NO valve noise. even on start up . The lifter adjustment is only to account for wear in valve train as engine gets use . If valve float occurs the pump up of the lifter will hold the valve off seat that amount. this could cause valve contact with piston and excessive clearance in valve train until valve spring backs the plunger in lifter down. not sure how all those needles and rollers will like that also I did use the Butler Schumer blueprinted oil pump 60 psi version. It has 40 psi at 800 rpm hot Last edited by dld; 02-27-2020 at 01:30 PM. |
#89
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It certainly was a bitter pill to swallow but living with a car that sounded like the engine had 150K miles on it wasn't going to fly. Yes, I did need to replace the pushrods. As I recall, the Johnson's/Crower are shorter however on the plus side they also weigh slightly less so a little reduction in valvletrain mass too. I did end-up selling the Lunati (Morels) and that off-set some of the cost.
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Only a pawn in game of life. |
#90
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The Crane catalogue show olds and pontiac use the same roller lifter.
Is that accurate? |
#91
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I run a 80 lb pump and the lifter noise was not significantly different with 10w30 to 15w50 HR oil, 1/4, 1/2 or 1 turn preload. I can live with it but I wish I had a solid roller now, with less noise.
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#92
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Any update?
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
#93
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I have set the pre-load at 1/4, 1/2, 1, and 1,5 turns with no change in lifter noise. I can bottom the lifter out and make the lifters quiet, so I am certain its a lifter noise. Obviously i don't want to run bottomed out and backing off a turn makes them sound very similar to all the other pre-load settings. I started with thick oil 15/50 and moved to 10/30. No change in noise noted. The lifters are louder when the engine is warmed up, 190F. Dead cold its pretty quiet for about 5 minutes. It doesn't seem to be just 1 or 2 sets, they all seem to make noise. With the valve covers on, hood down, an insulator under the hood,2.5" magna flow mufflers straight thrus, it's still audible at idle. Running down the road I do not hear it. I sent Butler a video and they were uncertain if it was "excessive" noting they are loud. I'm unsure what else to do but possible drive it a few hundred miles, and see if it gets louder or stays the same. I may try another set of shorter pushrods, but it seems like a long shot to see an improvement. The rockers aren't striking anything or running off the valve stem edge, and I selected the pushrods using an adjustable pushrod, dial indicator and photos of everything to Butler. Maybe I'm the problem, expecting a roller hydraulic $600 sounding lifter to sound comparable to a set of $100 hydraulic flat tappets?
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#94
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455 Comp Hydraulic Roller Lifters Too Loud
I don't think you're the problem to expect your hydraulic rollers to be as quiet as hydraulic flat tappets. My hydraulic rollers are as quiet as my previous hydraulic flat tappets which means DEAD QUIET, NO NOISE. I have no idea what your problem is but, here is what I do know. I have Bullet hydraulic rollers (which are Morels made by Callies with Bullet stamp on them). (Instructions that came with them say right on them Callies.) I run these Bullet lifters on a Bullet/Ultradyne cam custom specked by Tim Goolsby at Bullet/Ultradyne with PAC springs, retainers and locks, that he also specked. When I was first talking to him about cam, I expressed concern about noisy, ticking lifters (after all the threads about that on this forum) and he assured me I'd be fine, satisfied and happy and I am. My engine does not have the "famous" lifter bore modification. I run 20W-50 (but have run 10W-30 with no difference. Lifters didn't make one tick on initial start up after cam installation (did drill prime, though) and recently car sat 3 months without being started and no tick on start up. I don.t know your cam specs but, my cam is a mild grind. 279/287, 225/233 @ .050 on 112 LSA, .516" lift intake and exhaust.FYI
Good luck. Hope you get to bottom of your noise, get it corrected and enjoy a nice quiet valvetrain. |
#95
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The problem is the lifters. The CC shavers are junk, at least the ones I got in 2017. You are the fourth person I know with this problem.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
#96
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junk? i thought the comp "S" lifters were supposed to be the newer better improved lifters & the original ones prior to ~2015 were the noisy ones everyone called junk?
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#97
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I've run both of the comp versions before 2015 and after, and never had a problem with either version, they were all dead quiet. I think I posted pictures of the differences earlier in this thread somewhere, or one of these many lifter threads we've had. And while the differences are very noticeable they both actually worked just fine for me.
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#98
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Like I said, fourth person I know who had problems with CC HR lifters from the 2017 era. Apparently not everyone is having similar issues. I can only report my experiences and those of others who are having similar issues. I went through a nitemare with CC last summer with my brother's lifters. A wheel on one broke immediately on start-up and ruined a lobe on the cam and others collapsed. Went through a cam repair and two lifter exchanges with CC with collapse lifters and he still has a motor that makes horrible noises similar to HWYSTAR, I don't even want to start it up. Next step is getting Johnson's through Butler. I have a brand new set of CC shavers that I will not use, anyone want to buy them? Never out of the package.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
#99
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PM me with what you want for the new junk lifters!Tom
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#100
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