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#21
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I'm the same way especially over something like this. |
#22
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1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A. I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977. Shut it off Shut it off Buddy, I just shut your Prius down... |
#23
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No difference. Checked the tightness of the Y-pipe connections at the manifolds. Both are tight and not leaking. Both manifolds are original to the engine and it ran with them before with no issues. I also inspected them closely and checked them for flatness before re-installing on the new engine. They're good. |
#24
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#25
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I stated quiet pistons were a must. I know cast is the way to go for quietness but today's available forged can be quiet too when set up properly. I have had engines built before with forged pistons and they were fine in terms of noise. I am not ready to totally place blame on the excessive clearance in this case, at least not yet. But something is clearly amiss. |
#26
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__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile |
#27
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Didn't cut filter open yet. |
#28
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Put some of your waste oil in a black shallow pan and get some sunlight on it. Makes it easier to see artifacts... I like to do that with the remainder of oil left in the filter after an oil change....
__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile |
#29
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I listened to the vid several times. I hear three noises: small exhaust leak, acceptable valve noise and a bottom end rattle.
As long as no bearing material came out in the oil filter pleats AND the oil pressure is good, I would not call for immediate teardown. Loose skirt clearance will make rattling noises and wear the rings out faster, but will not cause short term failure. It'll run fine like this as long as it doesn't get louder or make a distinct knock noise. My old 400 had 2618 pistons with .005" clearance, and would rattle like this when cold. Those pistons would expand when hot and the noise would mostly go away. The issue here is the 4032 pistons won't expand as much, so it will always have some rattle. Running a lower water temperature will cause less cylinder expansion, so that may help quiet it down a little. If the noise is objectionable, you'll have to tear it down and replace the pistons. Autotec pistons can be had in any bore size, so those could be used without a re-bore. My 400 block cleaned up at 4.157" with a shop plate honing it, so I used a set of Autotec 4032 with 4.1535" skirt without having to re-bore to 4.160"
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
#30
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one of the noises does sound like an exhaust leak. the others maybe something in the pan. loose, cracked, broken, windage tray and/or lower dipstick tube. baffle in the oil pan cracked, loose, oil pump pickup tube touching it. maybe the pick up tube touching the bottom of the pan. loose or cracked flex plate. as of late, I look a lot more closely at new stuff for problems that shouldn't be there because they are new, before good 'ol factory parts.
can you touch the pan or dipstick tube while it's running and feel anything? with the engine OFF and the convertor unbolted, grab the flex plate and see if it moves front to back, side to side vigorously for looseness/noise. |
#31
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Everything attached to the engine externally and internally with the exception of the pistons, rods,pump and balancer are factory parts original to the car. I was very meticulous with all the add on internal parts, oil pump, dip stick extension,etc, when assembling because I didn't want a problem like this after it was in.......been there done that before.
Flywheel is perfect, no windage tray, pan baffle ok, rotated the engine before pan was installed just to be sure no throws were touching anything and they were not. Oil pump pickup is 1/2" off the pan bottom. Was under it this morn........started it up cold mid forties garage temp and it was noticeably quieter. You could barely hear the rattle/ticks although still there. Laid under the car as it warmed up and the noises slowly got progressively louder as it attained full operating temps to what you hear in the vid. Used my stethoscope in various locations and when placed on the side of the block the rhythmic crank speed ticking can be heard vividly. There are no exhaust leaks anyplace that I can find. It all sealed and tight based on what I can see, feel and verify. Last edited by abefromen; 02-24-2020 at 03:13 PM. |
#32
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Crank end play was checked before I put the pan on and it was at .003, tight but within spec.
Checked it again just now just to be sure the thrust wasn't going somewhere and even though I didn't have the dial indicator on I could tell it was the same maybe a thou more. Taking a closer look at the original break in filter again I can see lots of very,very small silver spots.....see pic. The oil sample shown below, shows a sample of the 20-50 I replaced the break in oil with......hard to see but it also shows very very small silver specs. Some of that on the side of the cup is lint from the rag used to clean it. Question is, how much of this if any is normal for a new build with zero miles? Or is it bearing material? A lot of it DID stick to a magnet. This is a HFT engine so I would think a bit of metal from the break in is normal? Last edited by abefromen; 02-24-2020 at 03:05 PM. |
#33
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One more of the 20-50 after break in replacement oil.
Oil pressure is good. With the 20-50 it's actually near 30 at hot idle. Pressure isn't a problem. There is also a good amount up top looking in the oil fill hole with it running, and the lifters and rockers up top are silent. Low lift 066 with NOS GM lifters. |
#34
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Oil which continues to show non-magnetic "fines" after successive oil changes indicates premature bearing wear and if accompanied by piston slap, premature piston skirt wear. Continued magnetic flecks or "fines" indicates camshaft/lifter failure. Based on the video and the metallic flecks pictured, I would say the noises are a combination of poor block and crank prep (cleaning and deburring), excessive bearing and piston clearances and a failing camshaft lobe. I would take it back to the builder pronto.
__________________
Triple Black 1971 GTO Last edited by NeighborsComplaint; 02-24-2020 at 04:03 PM. |
#35
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If that was my filter, used for break-in .... wouldn't cause me a lot of concern. If the next filter looked like that it would cause me some concern.
During break-in I put small niobium bar magnets on the oil filter case to trap magnetic particles. That way when you cut the filter open it you have mostly non-magnetic in the pleats and the metallic particles attached to the inside of the filter can. You leave the magnets on till the filter is cut open. |
#36
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Poor off the top oil and see what’s hanging out on the bottom....
__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile |
#37
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It's actually a small measuring cup that I let some oil drip into after loosening the drain bolt. It's the only catch I could find that was black to show what was in the oil better.
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#38
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Original springs, low lift 066 and I marked the push rods and watched them all spin at the same speed thru my custom "windowed" valve covers during break in and after running at idle during a brief carb tune/idle adjustment. |
#39
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Oh....well, does your small measuring cup have material settled in the bottom right corner?
__________________
71 GTO, 463, KRE 295 cfm heads ported by SD Performance, RPM intake, Qjet, Dougs Headers, Comp cams HR 246/252 ...11 to 1 , 3.55 cogs, 3985lbs.....day three- 11.04 at 120mph ....1.53 60', 6.98 1/8 mile |
#40
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Not sure what was as no dark moly paste was used on the cam lobes. Some Joe Gibbs paste was used that supposedly dissolves in oil. |
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