[chiphead]

I'm sure many here consider the break in additives and some use them. Me personally, I've come to the conclusion that the additives are a roll of the dice. The limited amount of actual testing that I've seen, shows that the results of additives are luck of the draw. Some improve wear performance and some hurt wear performance, compared to the base oil tested by itself. And even then, wear tests are not 100% representative of an actual engine.

If you look at the additive packages of these conventional oils, they're all over the place. You add an additive package on top of that, and it's just blind hope that the resultant chemistry works out for you. Even anecdotal evidence that a combination worked for somebody in the past, may not hold because the oils have all been reformulated.

Because of the above, my current thinking is to use a conventional oil that rates good on the recent BITOG or MRRATFROG.blog or BozoTheHotrodClown oil test results and hope for the best. Any random parts store additives I mix in, may skew the results.

[RocktimusPryme]

See to me it seems easier to just have a single product. I also fall into the category that feels these things have been purpose designed. They don’t need an amateur like me adding foreign products to them. But I know that’s kinda a 50/50 position.

I guess you could consider all the moly lube on the cam during install as an additive.

The price thing to me seems about a wash unless you use a really expensive break in oil.

Also, it’s not like I have a personal engine guy lol. Look up Ozzys Racing Engines on Facebook. I’ve bought about $3k worth of stuff recently including a set of Brodix BBC heads that he beat Summits price by over $100 after tax and shipping. He’s gotten me good deals on several things. I encourage anybody to contact him and see if he can save you money. He’s dealt very straight with me. Support small business.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by chiphead

I'm sure many here consider the break in additives and some use them. Me personally, I've come to the conclusion that the additives are a roll of the dice. The limited amount of actual testing that I've seen, shows that the results of additives are luck of the draw. Some improve wear performance and some hurt wear performance, compared to the base oil tested by itself. And even then, wear tests are not 100% representative of an actual engine.

If you look at the additive packages of these conventional oils, they're all over the place. You add an additive package on top of that, and it's just blind hope that the resultant chemistry works out for you. Even anecdotal evidence that a combination worked for somebody in the past, may not hold because the oils have all been reformulated.

Because of the above, my current thinking is to use a conventional oil that rates good on the recent BITOG or MRRATFROG.blog or BozoTheHotrodClown oil test results and hope for the best. Any random parts store additives I mix in, may skew the results.

Yep, you can't always believe what you read or what someone says about a product, and it's ever changing. That's why it's important to send in a sample to Blackstone and find out what oils are doing the best job for your driving and maintenance habits. Try 3-4 brands with different additive packages, maybe 2-3 of your favorite filters, and with some sample testing they'll tell you exactly how your engine is doing, how much longer you can run that oil before it needs changed etc.... and you'll figure out pretty quickly what works good and what doesn't.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 78w72

so does nobody use the specific additives for cam break in? doesn't adding these to a good off the shelf oil make it a break in oil just as good as the overpriced break in oils being marketed out there lately?? i have broken in or helped with break in on a few cams over the years & just used the comp additive & a name brand oil with no issues at all...

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...eak%20in%20oil

The only additive I've ever used on break in is EOS purchased from the dealer, but I haven't done that in a couple of decades. The break in oils already have everything you need, and aren't really all that expensive if you shop around. Especially when you consider you just sunk $10k in a rebuild, least that's what I tend to spend around here.
I generally buy a case of the break in oil and it's a bit cheaper that way. I figure what these engines cost it's a minimal investment and I feel better about the break in procedure.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by chiphead

I'm sure many here consider the break in additives and some use them. Me personally, I've come to the conclusion that the additives are a roll of the dice. The limited amount of actual testing that I've seen, shows that the results of additives are luck of the draw. Some improve wear performance and some hurt wear performance, compared to the base oil tested by itself. And even then, wear tests are not 100% representative of an actual engine.

If you look at the additive packages of these conventional oils, they're all over the place. You add an additive package on top of that, and it's just blind hope that the resultant chemistry works out for you. Even anecdotal evidence that a combination worked for somebody in the past, may not hold because the oils have all been reformulated.

Because of the above, my current thinking is to use a conventional oil that rates good on the recent BITOG or MRRATFROG.blog or BozoTheHotrodClown oil test results and hope for the best. Any random parts store additives I mix in, may skew the results.

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

See to me it seems easier to just have a single product. I also fall into the category that feels these things have been purpose designed. They don’t need an amateur like me adding foreign products to them. But I know that’s kinda a 50/50 position.

I guess you could consider all the moly lube on the cam during install as an additive.

The price thing to me seems about a wash unless you use a really expensive break in oil.

Also, it’s not like I have a personal engine guy lol. Look up Ozzys Racing Engines on Facebook. I’ve bought about $3k worth of stuff recently including a set of Brodix BBC heads that he beat Summits price by over $100 after tax and shipping. He’s gotten me good deals on several things. I encourage anybody to contact him and see if he can save you money. He’s dealt very straight with me. Support small business.

i agree with random parts store additives being a crap shoot. but, comp & crane cam break in additives have been around for decades & are specifically formulated to do what they are intended to do, just like the heavy cam lobe paste. they are not like the normal zddp additives for after break in. i don’t think playing oil chemist is a good idea either, guess i just trust what big names like comp & crane etc have formulated for this purpose, they do make the cams after all.

using a regular oil with a break in additive will have some other additives vary from brand to brand, but the important additives for cam break in are there in more than enough levels to compensate for almost any decent oil you would use. nothing wrong with using a break in oil, which could also vary additives from brand to brand. most of these products today will work great, I would use either really, just always had great luck with the comp additive.

the having a guy was sarcastic.. lol. I wasn’t sure if you meant a local seller or something. haven’t heard of that company & im not much of a facebooker but will check them out.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

The only additive I've ever used on break in is EOS purchased from the dealer, but I haven't done that in a couple of decades. The break in oils already have everything you need, and aren't really all that expensive if you shop around. Especially when you consider you just sunk $10k in a rebuild, least that's what I tend to spend around here.
I generally buy a case of the break in oil and it's a bit cheaper that way. I figure what these engines cost it's a minimal investment and I feel better about the break in procedure.

yeah ive heard of using EOS for additive & assembly lube... when i started doing this in the late 80's & early 90's the comp & crane type additives were the popular new thing, they even stated better ring seating. i heard from lots of local engine builders at the time that was what to use, especially in the mid 90's when the zddp reduction in oil thing started. i'm sure EOS worked great back then too, but ive never really heard of any problems or complaints with the comp type additives in 30+ years. just wanted to mention an alternative option.

& if i spend $10k on a motor like my recent stroker build, its going to be a roller cam so i dont have to mess with or worry about that break in & oil stuff. in a 400 i did for another street car i went FT & cost less than 4k, broke in on normal oil with comp additive, runs great with no noise or issues for 10+ years now. & i ran a FT in a mild 455 back in the 90's that was a budget build for under $2000, used normal oil with crane additive & that car was beat on almost daily & nightly for almost 10 years & still ran fine when the car was totaled.. best dollar value to performance engine ever!

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 78w72

yeah ive heard of using EOS for additive & assembly lube... when i started doing this in the late 80's & early 90's the comp & crane type additives were the popular new thing, they even stated better ring seating. i heard from lots of local engine builders at the time that was what to use, especially in the mid 90's when the zddp reduction in oil thing started. i'm sure EOS worked great back then too, but ive never really heard of any problems or complaints with the comp type additives in 30+ years. just wanted to mention an alternative option.

& if i spend $10k on a motor like my recent stroker build, its going to be a roller cam so i dont have to mess with or worry about that break in & oil stuff. in a 400 i did for another street car i went FT & cost less than 4k, broke in on normal oil with comp additive, runs great with no noise or issues for 10+ years now. & i ran a FT in a mild 455 back in the 90's that was a budget build for under $2000, used normal oil with crane additive & that car was beat on almost daily & nightly for almost 10 years & still ran fine when the car was totaled.. best dollar value to performance engine ever!

I don't have an issue at all with the Comp additives and other brands on the market. Wouldn't scare me to use it. I just usually grab the break in oil because it's convenient, I know it works, and it comes highly recommended by a few I trust, and it's served me well for many many years. So I'm okay with it.

I still use it even on roller cam break ins, for piece of mind in the other high pressure areas of the engine, and it promotes good ring seal. I still do a fair amount of flat tappet cam builds, for some reason it never seems to save me any money on engine costs LOL.

[Tom Vaught]

Magazine articles are ok, same deal with advertising. I was too lazy for that.

Ford Research had a BP Oils Research Guy in the building and he told me to use the 15/40 Diesel 1300 ppm oil with the SD rating at the time. Said I would have NO issues with the flat tappet Solid camshaft I have run for years.

I tend to listen to people smarter than me on a subject.

[Mike Davis]

I break in every engine I build in with Rotella 15W-40 diesel oil, with a 1/2 quart of GM EOS. Never had a issue no matter what type cam was used. How many engines from the factory had break in oil? Besides ring seal that engine should be the best it will be when first assembled.

[Dragncar]

When you add ZDDP to oil its psi ratings all go down, straight across the board. It seems to have the reverse effect.

[Tom Vaught]

Why would that surprise you? Most things in life are about balancing out opposing effects.

Tom V.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

I break in every engine I build in with Rotella 15W-40 diesel oil, with a 1/2 quart of GM EOS. Never had a issue no matter what type cam was used. How many engines from the factory had break in oil? Besides ring seal that engine should be the best it will be when first assembled.

I do the same thing. Only time I had a issue was with a used cam FT with new lifters.
But I run Dello 400. In that big oil test its numbers came back better than Rotella.
We use it by the 55 gallon drum at work.

[grandam1979]

Auto Zone has Lucas break in additive you can use and Menards has VR1 for $4.99 qt. Works great.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I do the same thing. Only time I had a issue was with a used cam FT with new lifters.
But I run Dello 400. In that big oil test its numbers came back better than Rotella.
We use it by the 55 gallon drum at work.

i use delo400 in my FT cam engine. its actually one of the higher ZDDP diesel oils today. rotella while good, is not what it used to be & is on the lower end of the list from recent VOA's ive seen lately.

the lucas additive is good stuff, its one of the few additives that actually tells you how much zddp is added based on amount. a full bottle for new cam break in & only 4oz as an additive to boost levels almost too much. great value for the amount of zddp per bottle. heres a chart that shows levels of their products from break in oils to the TB zinc additive.

https://lucasoil.com/pdf/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf

[Tom Vaught]

The 10296 Diesel Oil, Non synthetic is at 1281.

10296 SAE 15W-40 CJ 4 API 1,281

Right where it has been for years and according to the BP Engineer,
1281 Zinc is enough to protect any flat tappet camshaft for many years of driving.

Tom V.