I'm pretty sure that says GTO on the rear!

[GOAT WAGON 428]

OK, OK... I was exagerrating(sp.)!

[HUMBLER]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

I don't consider the GTO and the Mustang competition at all.

GTO:
Imported.
Not a well accepted body style.
Very limited options/trim levels.
Limited annual production over a short number of years.

Mustang:
Built in US.
Successful retro styling.
Everything from a 6 banger to a GT500.
Putting tons of them out to rental *including an H350.
Aftermarket parts galore already available

If GM were smart, the NEW GTO would give the Mustang a run. We'll see.

Funny thing about this is is that the you are attempting to knock the GTo here but I'd guess at least 90% of the new GTO owners would say most all of those points are NEGATIVE towards the Mustang! LOL.

[dancolkate]

Originally Posted by HUMBLER

Funny thing about this is is that the you are attempting to knock the GTo here but I'd guess at least 90% of the new GTO owners would say most all of those points are NEGATIVE towards the Mustang! LOL.

Totally misinterpeted my post. Happens all the time in emails and on BB's.

My point was this:

Ford and GM have taken a TOTALLY different aproach to the conception, and release of these two models. And in my opinion, the two cars are not competitors.

From what I've read the GTO is a blast to drive and has a fantastic interior. Ford is very succesfull with the Mustang and will probably continue to be for a while. The GTO is not wanted and has gone bye bye.

So my point is that Ford made smarter business decisions and is reaping the benefits.

GM.....your in the batters box....got anything?

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

Totally misinterpeted my post. Happens all the time in emails and on BB's.

My point was this:

Ford and GM have taken a TOTALLY different aproach to the conception, and release of these two models. And in my opinion, the two cars are not competitors.

From what I've read the GTO is a blast to drive and has a fantastic interior. Ford is very succesfull with the Mustang and will probably continue to be for a while. The GTO is not wanted and has gone bye bye.

So my point is that Ford made smarter business decisions and is reaping the benefits.

GM.....your in the batters box....got anything?

Ford has just continued to build Mustangs the same way they always have - mostly small engined cars that are cheap, and sold to the masses.

Pontiac stayed true to the original GTO concept - a limited production vehicle that always had a V8 and RWD.

The GTO is wanted by intelligent car people that actually enjoy driving the cars. The Mustang is wanted by people that are infatuated with "trendy" looks and don't care about performance.

The GTO is on temporary hiatus, and will return in the near future. Go buy yourself a new 6 cylinder Mustang if you like the thing so much.

[dancolkate]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Ford has just continued to build Mustangs the same way they always have - mostly small engined cars that are cheap, and sold to the masses..

Thank you for supporting my statement. It's the masses that allow a car company to stay in business. Mustang = an excellent business decision on the part of Ford.

Originally Posted by The Champ

Pontiac stayed true to the original GTO concept - a limited production vehicle that always had a V8 and RWD..

Pontiac is no longer. I'm sorry that you cannot accept that. GM (NOT Pontiac) imported an existing model from AU. At the end of the day, I'll bet GM's investment in the Holden GTO was a poor one. Nice try but a wiff nonetheless.

Originally Posted by The Champ

The GTO is wanted by intelligent car people that actually enjoy driving the cars. The Mustang is wanted by people that are infatuated with "trendy" looks and don't care about performance..

It's too bad there aren't enough of those "intelligent car people" to support the GM legacy.

Originally Posted by The Champ

The GTO is on temporary hiatus, and will return in the near future. Go buy yourself a new 6 cylinder Mustang if you like the thing so much.

When (if) the GM-GTO returns, how will it differ from the Cramaro? It won't because Pontiac is no longer. If it returns, it will share the same "platform", drivetrain etc. Thru the tailpipes, it will sound the same as the Cramaro.

As much as we'd like to see the hey day of true brand differential and distinction, those days are gone. The coffee is brewing, now go smell it.

[The Champ]

Dan

Ford sold a lot of Pinto's too, but that didn't make it a great car.

Pontiac does still exist, despite your claims, but things have changed in our new global economy. Ford is a global company too, if you haven't noticed.

FWIW, I don't drink coffee at all, so suffer no ill effects from the substance. Perhaps you've had too much of the vial beverage.

[dancolkate]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Dan

Ford sold a lot of Pinto's too, but that didn't make it a great car.

Pontiac does still exist, despite your claims, but things have changed in our new global economy. Ford is a global company too, if you haven't noticed.

FWIW, I don't drink coffee at all, so suffer no ill effects from the substance. Perhaps you've had too much of the vial beverage.

I guess I'm talking to a brick wall.

1) Nowhere in my posts did I claim Mustang is a great car....you totally missed the point. GM BLEW IT AGAIN DUDE.......MUSTANG IS A SUCCESS!!
Sorry for yelling....sometimes it's necessary.

2) Pontiac is GONE....there is no Pontiac. Pontiac is a badge held on a GM vehicle with double sided tape.

[Judge Man]

Originally Posted by GOAT WAGON 428

T/A looks WAY cooler. Ram Air, WS6, N.O.S, Supercharger, Traction bars: 10.0s ! And I'm a GTO Guy!

Your right about the TA.I dont like the looks of the 2004-06 GTO's either but there super fast.Pontiac would of sold more GTO's if they thought it threw more on the body styling of the car.Even though I'm not a big Mustang fan Ford did an excellant job on the looks of the new mustang.This is what pontiac should of done with the GTO ie:make it look like the older GTO with todays technology.

[GOAT WAGON 428]

Originally Posted by Judge Man

Your right about the TA.I dont like the looks of the 2004-06 GTO's either but there super fast.Pontiac would of sold more GTO's if they thought it threw more on the body styling of the car.Even though I'm not a big Mustang fan Ford did an excellant job on the looks of the new mustang.This is what pontiac should of done with the GTO ie:make it look like the older GTO with todays technology.

See, I know what i'm talking about!

[Judge Man]

I was excited when I heard that Pontiac was bringing back the GTO but when I saw pictures of the car I was disapointed.As soon as Pontiac changes the style of the GTO to fit the older style GTO then I'll buy one but other wise NO.

[pont3]

First, we MUST keep things in perspective. The GTO was NOT intended to replicate the OLD GTO. The current GTO was a "fill in" until a new ground-up edition could be readied. It is the car Bob felt could appease us for the time being. If we consider the car for what it is and its intended purpose, no way can it be considered a failure. Before the car ever hit our shores its lifespan was known. It was a known fact that it would not sell in huge numbers, and that many would not accept it. But it was a good enough car to at least give Pontiac a V8 RWD performance offering since they had no RWD V8 platforms to offer.

Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Just keep the facts straight. Just like any other business, Pontiac must improvise ad lib to remain competitive and will eventually thrive again. Maintaining a dooms-day attitude will not contribute to a positive future.

[Mr_GTO]

Dan, please try to find a clue ok?

[dancolkate]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Dan, please try to find a clue ok?

Howdy neighbor,

Please elaborate so that I may provide an intelligent response.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

Howdy neighbor,

Please elaborate so that I may provide an intelligent response.

1. Mustang, according to the US Gov't, is an IMPORT. It has less than the percentage of US made parts to consider it a domestic.

2. Mustang is sucessful but it hasn't helped Ford's business plan in the least. Ford is in tough shape right now...much tougher than GM.

3. GTO was a 3 year contract with Holden for them to supply cars. The car going on hiatus for a few years has NOTHING to do with the sales numbers of the car.

[HUMBLER]

Maybe numbered bullet points will sink in better, good one, LMAO.

[dancolkate]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

1. Mustang, according to the US Gov't, is an IMPORT. It has less than the percentage of US made parts to consider it a domestic. .

Interesting point. For my own education, is there a web site where I can learn which models the govt considers imports vs domestic?

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

2. Mustang is sucessful but it hasn't helped Ford's business plan in the least. Ford is in tough shape right now...much tougher than GM. .

Simple question for simple minds: As a company, would FORD be better off or worse without the Mustang?

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

3. GTO was a 3 year contract with Holden for them to supply cars. The car going on hiatus for a few years has NOTHING to do with the sales numbers of the car.

I realize this is the 04-06 GTO forum and some of you will go so far as to tattoo the GM division logo on your body. But I'm sorry folks, The 04-06 was merely an attempt on GM's part to throw "something" out there to keep their performace lineup alive. The 04-06 did nothing to help the GM, "the company". If anything, the vast amount of negative press (about the cars body style) hurt GM!!

Holden had planned all along to end-of-life the Monaro - the car the GTO is built from. The Monaro was extremely dated - it traces itself back to the same chassis used on the Caddy Catera, and the platform had serious and untenable safety issues (gas tank location required a re-engineering for US markets - and the result took away half the trunk and changed the CG point).

For those willing to wait a few YEARS, the unconfirmed 2009 "GTO" will be nothing more than a Camaro. No need to cry, it's just the way it is.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

Interesting point. For my own education, is there a web site where I can learn which models the govt considers imports vs domestic?



Simple question for simple minds: As a company, would FORD be better off or worse without the Mustang?



I realize this is the 04-06 GTO forum and some of you will go so far as to tattoo the GM division logo on your body. But I'm sorry folks, The 04-06 was merely an attempt on GM's part to throw "something" out there to keep their performace lineup alive. The 04-06 did nothing to help the GM, "the company". If anything, the vast amount of negative press (about the cars body style) hurt GM!!

Holden had planned all along to end-of-life the Monaro - the car the GTO is built from. The Monaro was extremely dated - it traces itself back to the same chassis used on the Caddy Catera, and the platform had serious and untenable safety issues (gas tank location required a re-engineering for US markets - and the result took away half the trunk and changed the CG point).

For those willing to wait a few YEARS, the unconfirmed 2009 "GTO" will be nothing more than a Camaro. No need to cry, it's just the way it is.

I have no idea where to look for it.

Oh I am sure it helps the bottom line but having one car that does well isn't going to help.

And if you think that the next gen GTO is just going to be nothing more than a Camaro then your ignorance is showing yet again.

[Judge Man]

Originally Posted by pont3

First, we MUST keep things in perspective. The GTO was NOT intended to replicate the OLD GTO. The current GTO was a "fill in" until a new ground-up edition could be readied. It is the car Bob felt could appease us for the time being. If we consider the car for what it is and its intended purpose, no way can it be considered a failure. Before the car ever hit our shores its lifespan was known. It was a known fact that it would not sell in huge numbers, and that many would not accept it. But it was a good enough car to at least give Pontiac a V8 RWD performance offering since they had no RWD V8 platforms to offer.

Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Just keep the facts straight. Just like any other business, Pontiac must improvise ad lib to remain competitive and will eventually thrive again. Maintaining a dooms-day attitude will not contribute to a positive future.

DOOMS-DAY ATTITUDE??I never said that the car was doomed I just expressed my opinion on the styling of the car.Other than the styling the car is pretty much bullit proof.Theres a guy here in my town that owns a 2004 GTO and that thing haul ass.The 2004-06 was a fill in,thats were Pontiac screwed up.Pontiac should of never brought the GTO model into production untell they were 100% ready to build the car that they wanted.Again my opinion.

[HUMBLER]

Originally Posted by dancolkate

I realize this is the 04-06 GTO forum and some of you will go so far as to tattoo the GM division logo on your body. But I'm sorry folks, The 04-06 was merely an attempt on GM's part to throw "something" out there to keep their performace lineup alive. The 04-06 did nothing to help the GM, "the company". If anything, the vast amount of negative press (about the cars body style) hurt GM!!

God love ya, we've heard it all before...move on...

[dancolkate]

OK Mr GTO and Mr Arrow Head Tattoo man . The past is the past and we each have our own opinions.

Now, lets talk about the future. And since we're men here, I propose a wager.

-I say the GM GTO will share the same Zeta platform as the Cramaro.
-Same front and rear suspension will be used (makes it easier on the counter guy at NAPA).
-They will both have the same engine, transmission, and rear axle.
-They will both be built in the same plant located in Canada.

Mark your little Outlook calendars boys.

Oh Phooey, I almost forgot the stakes!! Ideas??