[TheTempest]

Has anybody out there heard of or used any of the direct R-12 replacement fluids?

I stumbled onto a post regarding what was needed to swap an R-12 system to the current R-134a...this guy used a susbstance called "FreeZone" claiming it to be a direct replacement. Loading "FreeZone" and "Freon" into Google brought me to a couple of sites that sell FreeZone along with about half-a-dozen other direct R-12 replacements. It's claimed that these direct replacements can be used in an R-12 system with no modifications other than evacuating all the old R-12. These fluids are also claimed to be compatible with the mineral oil of an R-12 system. The pricing seems to be reasonable for the material (certainly when compared to the cost of retrofitting for 134a or buying R-12).

Any Comments????

Thanks,

Mike
'67 Tempest Sport Coupe

Mike
'67 Tempest Custom
Post Coupe

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then..." B. Seeger

[TheTempest]

Has anybody out there heard of or used any of the direct R-12 replacement fluids?

I stumbled onto a post regarding what was needed to swap an R-12 system to the current R-134a...this guy used a susbstance called "FreeZone" claiming it to be a direct replacement. Loading "FreeZone" and "Freon" into Google brought me to a couple of sites that sell FreeZone along with about half-a-dozen other direct R-12 replacements. It's claimed that these direct replacements can be used in an R-12 system with no modifications other than evacuating all the old R-12. These fluids are also claimed to be compatible with the mineral oil of an R-12 system. The pricing seems to be reasonable for the material (certainly when compared to the cost of retrofitting for 134a or buying R-12).

Any Comments????

Thanks,

Mike
'67 Tempest Sport Coupe

Mike
'67 Tempest Custom
Post Coupe

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then..." B. Seeger

[zomsteve]

talked to an a/c guy in a shop about these r-12 replacements.he told me if it wasn't 134-a not to use it. the 134 isn't as picky as first thought about the oil, must still use the ester or pag as there more compatible to the old oil. the hoses may need to be changed as the molecules are smaller and may pass through it. just my .02

[LouisianaGuy]

Freeze-12 has been used in a very good friends shop since the stuff hit the market and he has had no returns to date from swapping in freeze 12 for R-12, he uses it for Top offs and for complete system recharges, he even runs it in his own cars and i plan on putting it in my 77Ta when the turbo project is done.
Mike

[TheTempest]

Freeze-12 was one of the alternative, direct R-12 replacements. The info I got about FreeZone (from the web posting by a guy who claims 30yrs worth of auto A/C experience) was that it is just as good as freon in its cooling ability and the required system pressures needed to make it "work". It's my understanding that 134a operates at higher system pressures (at least for it to cool properly) and you must upgrade and/or replace some pretty pricey components. My '67 Tempest has all of the factory A/C components intact and there is still a bit of Freon in the system...whoops..hope the tree huggers aren't listening ;-). Using one of these direct replacements would seem to be the way to go....

Mike
'67 Tempest Custom
Post Coupe

"Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then..." B. Seeger

[Brad B. Hillebrand]

Yeah, I'm looking into this too for my car. Found out today that the Freeze 12 is actually about 80% 134 and 10-12% R12 with the rest some other stuff. I am afraid of the pressure now since it's basically 134, or most of it at least. I heard that the copper condensors and compressor will fail due to increased pressure. The original systems were designed for R12...still I'm not sure either and don't want to repair a brand new system.....

Brad

[mike nixon]

i've converted a ton of 12 systems to 134.


the duct temp ends up being,on the average, 10 degrees warmer than the 12 was.

the pressures will be 10% - 20% higher usually.

change the dessicant, and the oil to compatable parts and the system should work.


most customers don't notice the difference from 30deg to 40 deg duct temps on hot humid days.


i've not used the freeze 12 or other 'alternative " refridgerants so i can't comment on them.

mike

[rted]

There was more discussion on this topic a couple of months back. Search for "AC Conversion". I decided to stick with freon. That's what our systems were designed for and once you convert to Freeze12 or Freezone, there are fewer shops that will work on your AC.

[LouisianaGuy]

From what i have read the 134A is actually a heavier gas than the R12 is so there for it takes more to circulate it and in doing so makes the compressor work alot harder, im not shure on the Freeze 12's make up, but i know we have always added the stuff till the gages read the same as they do on a regular R12 set up, and we see the same duct Temps as we do with the Regular 12. I have converted a few cars to 134 as well and have had no problems either, but it is best to replace the Dryer, and remove compressor and give it a few spins to get the old oil out and add new oil and what not to the system. I usually also put a little bit of stop leak and leak detector in when i go back with the new oil so just in case it does leak some where maby it will stop and if it doesnt then i can find it easier LOL.
Mike

[JoeF]

I asked my local shop about Freeze 12 vs. R-134 conversions. He put Freeze 12 in his '67 Chevelle and is very happy with it. He's done quite a few Freeze 12 set-up's and had no complaints. With a 134 conversion, he says that most are happy, but a few come back saying it doesn't cool well enough. It appears that the 134 is somewhat picky about going into an older style system and may or may not provide enough cooling.

[Heybuck]

Anybody got an idea about how R134a is affecting my compressor?

I've had the system flushed out and loaded with R134a and it works fine - real cold - but it keeps blowing the front seal on the compressor.

I had the seal replaced twice then gave up and bought a fully re-built (in America) compressor. Same thing has happened. Oil spray everywhere.

So I'm thinking about finding a new A/C guy but the guy I've been using seems to know how to get the system fully recharged so am I being unfair?

Experience is that marvellous thing that makes you recognise a mistake when you make it again.

[george kujanski]

I believe if you load the system with the same weight of R134a, your pressures will be higher than with R12. If I recall correctly, a R134a load should be about 80% of the R12 load.

I recently converted my son's driver to R134a, the A/C did not work when we bought the car. I purged the old mineral oil, installed the proper amount of PAG, and loaded the R134a according to the pressures recommended on the instructions with the manifold gauge set; (temp 85F, hi=220,low=55 psi). The amount installed turned out to be less than the recommended R12 charge and the system is holding and cooling. Since the system was not working originally, we don't have a reference for comparison, but it's keeping him cool.

I used this as a test case, (read on the cheap side), don't know how long we'll keep the car, didn't change anything but the oil. It was holding some pressure originally (reather than open to the atmosphere) so I assumed the dessicant would be ok. That's one story...

Regards, George

[Heybuck]

Thanks George
Yes, we know about the 80% rule. That's what he has been putting in.

Maybe I've just been unlucky with my compressor(s)?

I'll know shortly cause I pulled a compressor off an old Holden I have lying dead down the back. It showed no signs of oil leaking and it was still holding gas after 16 years since last recharge. If this one holds I'll be OK. Fingers crossed

Experience is that marvellous thing that makes you recognise a mistake when you make it again.

[DanC]

Since running out of R12 three years ago I have "converted" all my R12 systems, as needed, to Duracool 12a with great results. Not a 134 blend, just pure ozone friendly hydrocarbon. Best of all Duracool is compatible with all oils and does not require any flushing or converting other than evacuate and charge!

DanC