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#41
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Quote:
Obviously "Webster" wasn't a car guy....
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
#42
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Quote:
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
#43
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That's the worst one so far! It's funny how different these all are so far.
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
#44
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Basically look for factory 4 barrel, (including tripower, dual quad or FI) HP V8 in a 2 door car with dual exhaust and a backseat that may also have other performance packages , posi . etc .. I consider the "Pony Car" to branch from the "Muscle Car" and the other term "Super Car" can also include special FS models (in my book). But the standard definition IS the mid-size model with a oversize and/or HP V8 (meaning that body style must also come in a low hp , econo version ie: 64 389-4v GTO vs 64 326-2v Tempest).
I have a hardtime saying a 63 SD Catalina wouldnt be a Super Car/Muscle Car.
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63 Catalina coupe 455 budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.4 1/8th 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
#45
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If FB's and Camaro's(uni-body) are "pony cars", the Dodge Chargers are also.
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If you cant drive from gas pump to gas pump across the map, its not a street car. http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...hop/?start=100 |
#46
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Well those Fat-Azzz 71-73 Boatstang's are about the same size as a Charger ... LOL
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63 Catalina coupe 455 budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.4 1/8th 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
#47
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Who cares?
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#48
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Who azzed you clown ? Those were some ugly Mustangs..as were the Chargers those years too.
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63 Catalina coupe 455 budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.4 1/8th 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
#49
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Who asked you to comment on my comment?
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#50
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Would you call a 326 HO 2 dr Lemans/Tempest a muscle car at 285 hp?
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63 Catalina coupe 455 budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.4 1/8th 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
#51
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A GTOAA chapter that I belong to, the Land of Lakes GTO Club in Minnesota, has conducted their annual Land of Lakes Muscle Car Classic for twenty-two years. Paul Zazarine calls it the best annual gathering of American muscle cars in the upper midwest. I was part of the organizing committee in 1986. The committee put together a criterion of attributes that they considered to be a "muscle car." The car had to be: built between the years 1961 and 1974, offered for sale within the borders of the USA, and have a power-to-weight ratio of 12 or less lbs shipping weight per each factory gross rated horsepower with no less than a 4-bbl or fuel injected induction system. We have a "bible" that lists all the cars that fit these parameters. Starting with the 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne powered by the 305hp 348 4bbl through the 1974 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am with a 290 net hp factored to 363 gross hp 455 Super Duty, there are 1,820 entries. In addition to the "Classic Muscle" category, there are also "Vintage Muscle" (1956-1960) with 167 entries, and the "Modern Muscle" (1979 - current) displays that are in a non-judged category. We consider "muscle" to be any vehicle that meets the listed qualifications, be it Avanti, Muscle Sport: Corvett and Cobra, Muscle full-sized: Bonneville, Park Lane, Polara, Muscle Pony: AMX, Mustang, Barracuda, Firebird, Camaro, Muscle Mid-size: Tempest/LeMans/GTO, Chevelle/ElCamino, Fairlane/Ranchero, Charger, Road Runner, Muscle Compact: Chevy II/Nova, Ventura GTO, Duster, Dart. All body styles are eligible, including 4-door sedans and even station wagons if they meet the power to weight requirements. This is one organization's definition of Muscle Car, and it makes for a very diverse and interesting annual display. Believe me when I say, if a real Cobra or Super Duty Catalina rolls onto the show field, no one questions its muscle car label. And how about Muscle Trucks? 426 wedge Dodge pickups? 427/454 Chevys? Or even 390 4bbl Ford F150s? |
#52
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last line in post by gtoric;
And how about Muscle Trucks? 426 wedge Dodge pickups? 427/454 Chevys? Or even 390 4bbl Ford F150s? And you forgot with the Fords the factory installed 429's, basic 4bbl or the CJ429 but with the standard production car manifolds. My 72 F250 isn't the most common factory big block, but it is one of a few! And fun to drive |
#53
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As long as they meet the 12:1 power to weight ratio determination.
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#54
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I think trucks have a hard time meeting that ratio. They weigh too much. A hemi ram is right under 14:1 weight to power. 345 horse at 4800 lbs for a single cab long bed. STR10 Rams make that ratio 10:1. 500 hp and about 5000 lbs.
I'd love to build a late 60s/early 70s Dodge Pick Up with a 426 in it.
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
#55
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Quote:
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#56
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A 326 HO A-body would have to weigh no more than 3420#'s to hit 12:1 . It's very marginal..But I agree overall with the Club descriptions above.. There are many sub-categories , the GTO is just the "basic" universal accepted definition of a Muscle car as a seperation from previous hipo "big" cars.. It would be hard to call one of the 65-66 documented 4 door 426 Hemi-cars to not be a muscle car!
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63 Catalina coupe 455 budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.4 1/8th 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
#57
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Shipping weight on a '64 LeMans is 2,995 lbs. according to the Standard Catalog of American Cars. That figure is for a base car with five gallons of gas, no driver. Start adding options like the V8, power steering, power brakes, and 200 lbs of driver, pretty soon you've got a 3,500 lb car. But, all of the calculations that I made for the LOLMCC show were based on shipping weight. Here's our listing for 1964 Pontiacs:
Catalina (3750 lbs) 4V 389/320 11.72:1 6V 389/330 11.36:1 6V 421/350 10.71:1 6V 421/370 HO 10.14:1 Star Chief (3885) 6V 389/330 11.77:1 6V 421/350 11.10:1 6V 421/370 HO 10.50:1 Bonneville (3920) 6V 389/330 11.88:1 6V 421/350 11.20:1 6v 421/370 HO 11.14:1 Grand Prix (3930) 6V 389/330 11.91:1 6V 421/350 11.23:1 6v 421/370 HO 11.17:1 Tempest/Tempest Custom (2930) 4V 326/280 HO 10.46:1 LeMans (2995) 4V 326/280 HO 10.70:1 LeMans GTO (3126) 4V 389/325 9.62:1 6V 389/348 8.98:1 |
#58
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Thats a pretty cool break down.
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Robert Lewis 1959 Star Chief 4 Dr HT dual quad 389 4 speed 1962 Pontiac Plain Jane Catalina http://pontiac-59.com/ |
#59
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Poisen heart, If you had been into cars, leading up to 1964, you would have been able to see the difference between the full size and mid size cars. The 64 Tempest, LeMans and the LeMans with the GTO option, was the replacement for the 63 Tempest and LeMans, which were slightly smaller, but had the lighter unibody. When the GTO was released, I was driving a 61 Bonneville, but told myself that I would have a GTO one day. As luck would have it, I ran across a 63 LeMans builder. I drove and raced it for fourteen years, until I rolled it on the track. A friend, who was in the Air Force, had been transfered and he offered the 64, that I had found for him, to me. It's been an ongoing project since 1989, but I wouldn't trade it for anything!
As far as the Mustang is concerned, the Firebird and Camaro were released in 67, by GM, to compete with it.
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Bill 64 GTO, tube chassis w/606" IA tall deck, PG & a pro geared Fab 9". 2750 lbs. 8.2550@164.17-1/4, 5.2901@131.97-1/8, 1.1981-60-ft. 8/10/08 |
#60
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64 GTO, tube chassis w/606" IA tall deck (actually only 605.5), PG & a pro geared Fab 9". 2750 lbs.
8.2550@164.17-1/4, 5.2901@131.97-1/8, 1.1981-60-ft. 8/10/08 REAL Indians don't wear bowties That's one BAD indian !
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63 Catalina coupe 455 budget drag car 11's 1/4 , 7.4 1/8th 66 Star Chief Executive 57k mile 69 Le Mans 2 dr HT 350 85k mile 15 sec 1/4 69 Firebird 400 Burgandy/Black 70 Olds Rallye 350 F85 4 speed 3.91's 70 Olds Cutlass Cruiser Red Wagon 350 101k miles 15 sec 1/4 12 sec w 455 74 Cheyenne Super C10 LWB Gen 6 454 w ZZ502 cam 3.07gear 13.1 1/4, 8.3 1/8 2020 RAM 1500 SLT 4x4 5.7 A8 Hemi 2007 Hummer H3 3.7 liter turd 2019 Chevy Spark petrol car 38 mpg |
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