[mike leech]

^^^Kewl aide was consumed. ^^^

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

ALL of you guys in competitive racing do that, and funny thing is, only the #1 spot can really claim anything in racing. Everything else is really, "well, if I hadn't broken my d**k I would have done so and so". I'm sure the top mustang and chevy guys would get a good laugh. I'm in with those that think you all acted like children.

It just really sucks that you guys bashed so hard, and so often, that these heads are now not available. That stuff should stay over on yellow bullet "where the weak are killed and...yeah, whatever". I'd love to have a convertible set.

Beautiful car Kelvin, and a very nice new bullet. Another 150 hp is nothing to sneeze at at those hp levels for a head change.

You know an aweful lot of history for someone that's only been here 3 months. Lurk much or just change your screen name?

[Rusty4cyl]

Time Warp, You said you would love to own a set, well I have one with the convertible exhaust, I will sell you. Then you only need one more, and you will have a set. No problem Let me know Thanks Rusty

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

ALL of you guys in competitive racing do that, and funny thing is, only the #1 spot can really claim anything in racing. Everything else is really, "well, if I hadn't broken my d**k I would have done so and so". I'm sure the top mustang and chevy guys would get a good laugh. I'm in with those that think you all acted like children.

It just really sucks that you guys bashed so hard, and so often, that these heads are now not available. That stuff should stay over on yellow bullet "where the weak are killed and...yeah, whatever". I'd love to have a convertible set.

Beautiful car Kelvin, and a very nice new bullet. Another 150 hp is nothing to sneeze at at those hp levels for a head change.

So in your theory the reason that CV1s are not made anymore is because a few people bashed them hard?

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by mike leech

^^^Kewl aide was consumed. ^^^

I don't think that was Koolaid!

LOL

[Flyin79bird]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

I have not seen a standard port KRE HP go 400 CFM.

IMO, your original set of High Ports after Dan Barton worked them was about as much as you can get out of them without moving the push rod.

My CNC KRE HP's flow right around 420 CFM with a .750" offset.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Calvin, my HPs flow 400 or so with the standard port and no offset rockers. So whatever CNC program KRE used on my heads must've worked without offsetting the pushrod tubes.

Josh

[Blued and Painted]

Wonder what an all out effort could yield. 1020?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Flyin79bird

Calvin, my HPs flow 400 or so with the standard port and no offset rockers. So whatever CNC program KRE used on my heads must've worked without offsetting the pushrod tubes.

Josh

What type of bench did you have them flowed on Josh? and where?

Tom V.

[Flyin79bird]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

What type of bench did you have them flowed on Josh? and where?

Tom V.

Tom, this motor was built carb to pan by KRE...I have the dyno sheets somewhere...built back in 2007 it made 1030hp. Sat for a few years. Raced last year and pushed the head gaskets out of it with only 15 passes on the motor. Had my buddy go thru it. About the only thing good in the motor is the billet crank...everything else was...well that's a story for another day.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by Flyin79bird

Calvin, my HPs flow 400 or so with the standard port and no offset rockers. So whatever CNC program KRE used on my heads must've worked without offsetting the pushrod tubes.

Josh

Not trying to start a debate here as I'm a fan of the HP heads, but I've had more than a few sets of HP's in my shop and the ones that flowed in the 380 CFM to 400 CFM range all had shaft rockers with an offset .700".

The shafted HP's have the push rods holes drilled in a different location and do not require tubes.

What is the width of the heads at the manifold? What intake gasket are you using?

Thanks.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Flyin79bird

Tom, this motor was built carb to pan by KRE...I have the dyno sheets somewhere...built back in 2007 it made 1030hp. Sat for a few years. Raced last year and pushed the head gaskets out of it with only 15 passes on the motor. Had my buddy go thru it. About the only thing good in the motor is the billet crank...everything else was...well that's a story for another day.

Wow 1030 with standard pushrod heads

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Flyin79bird

Tom, this motor was built carb to pan by KRE...I have the dyno sheets somewhere...built back in 2007 it made 1030hp. Sat for a few years. About the only thing good in the motor is the billet crank...everything else was...well that's a story for another day.

Really nice reported hp for a 2007 NA engine.

As far as the other story goes, save your typing as I have heard that song played by more than a few people over the years. More than one builder involved too so it is not as uncommon as some would think.

Tom V.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Wow 1030 with standard pushrod heads

You did see where it was flowed and dynoed at, right?

[grnmnstr]

Originally Posted by Flyin79bird

Tom, this motor was built carb to pan by KRE...I have the dyno sheets somewhere...built back in 2007 it made 1030hp. Sat for a few years. Raced last year and pushed the head gaskets out of it with only 15 passes on the motor. Had my buddy go thru it. About the only thing good in the motor is the billet crank...everything else was...well that's a story for another day.

My opinion guys, and no slam at Josh, but dyno numbers and flow numbers are meaningless.

Build the motor, put it in the car, show me the timeslip.....................and the weight.

Dyno and flow numbers are only good for you. Just a tool. Make a pull, get a number. Make a change, get a number. Right direction, wrong direction.

My dyno number is bigger than your dyno number. Who cares??

Just tell the dyno operator what number you want to see and he can get it for you. Big deal.

[Hammertime Mike]

Originally Posted by 65nss4spdGTO

Not trying to start a debate here as I'm a fan of the HP heads, but I've had more than a few sets of HP's in my shop and the ones that flowed in the 380 CFM to 400 CFM range all had shaft rockers with an offset .700".

The shafted HP's have the push rods holes drilled in a different location and do not require tubes.

What is the width of the heads at the manifold? What intake gasket are you using?

Thanks.

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

Calvin, I've got a set of HP's that I had ported to 380 cfm two years ago. The pushrods are not offset. Just letting you know that they are out there. Mike

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

You did see where it was flowed and dynoed at, right?

Hey what did your heads flow?


GTO George

[TimeWarp]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

So in your theory the reason that CV1s are not made anymore is because a few people bashed them hard?

Jack, that is correct. Look at the little aluminum Edelbrock head that barely flowed a bit more than a decent stock head out of the box and even had some oil return problems according to some. People were willing to pay $2000 for a set when they were introduced, even with crappy valve springs, etc. Nobody bashed it, and eventually after MANY people bought them and spent money porting and playing with them, they turned out to be relatively good pieces with some work done.

ALL of which Edelbrock didn't bother to do themselves...it was you guys who made it happen.

Oh, and the Edelbrock heads even required most to switch to O-port headers, adding to the expense, so the fact that the CV1's have some specific parts needed is not a new concept.

So yes, I think the CV1 never had a lot of time to just see what might happen, and yes I think it was because of the things people did and said on this forum. Its just a shame, because there are few enough people willing to invest in a new piece or part for our Pontiacs, let alone a head that might cost over $100,000 to bring to market.

Who cares if someone came in and bragged about how great they were gonna be. All you guys had to do was be patient...eventually they'd have made it to the track and either proved themselves...or not.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Jack, that is correct. Look at the little aluminum Edelbrock head that barely flowed a bit more than a decent stock head out of the box and even had some oil return problems according to some.

To be Polite (because it is Christmas Season) you need to do a bit more research on what real stock heads from Pontiac actually flowed. A stock D-port head was in the High 180 cfm range. A stock Ram Air IV head or 455 SD head was in the 230-240 cfm range.

A WELL PORTED Pontiac RA-IV or 455 SD head, (Butch Elkins, Nunzi, Whitmore ) was in the very low 300 cfm range. And finally a stock Edelbrock head was in the 285 cfm range out of the box. 100 CFM HIGHER FLOW VS A STOCK PONTIAC HEAD.

So now Edelbrock heads (not Pro Ports either) are typically in the 375 - 380 range cfm (when ported) or 200 cfm better than a stock cast iron Pontiac head.

Those are real numbers that can be verified by many.

Tom V.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by TimeWarp

Jack, that is correct. Look at the little aluminum Edelbrock head that barely flowed a bit more than a decent stock head out of the box and even had some oil return problems according to some. People were willing to pay $2000 for a set when they were introduced, even with crappy valve springs, etc. Nobody bashed it, and eventually after MANY people bought them and spent money porting and playing with them, they turned out to be relatively good pieces with some work done.

ALL of which Edelbrock didn't bother to do themselves...it was you guys who made it happen.

Oh, and the Edelbrock heads even required most to switch to O-port headers, adding to the expense, so the fact that the CV1's have some specific parts needed is not a new concept.

So yes, I think the CV1 never had a lot of time to just see what might happen, and yes I think it was because of the things people did and said on this forum. Its just a shame, because there are few enough people willing to invest in a new piece or part for our Pontiacs, let alone a head that might cost over $100,000 to bring to market.

Who cares if someone came in and bragged about how great they were gonna be. All you guys had to do was be patient...eventually they'd have made it to the track and either proved themselves...or not.

2 things come to mind.....

1. You are wrong. E heads were bashed shamelessly when they came out.
Results are what made them a success.

2. WE ARE STILL WAITING for the cv results. THEY ARE STILL SUCKING HIND T!T!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

To be Polite (because it is Christmas Season) you need to do a bit more research on what real stock heads from Pontiac actually flowed. A stock D-port head was in the High 180 cfm range. A stock Ram Air IV head or 455 SD head was in the 230-240 cfm range.

A WELL PORTED Pontiac RA-IV or 455 SD head, (Butch Elkins, Nunzi, Whitmore ) was in the very low 300 cfm range. And finally a stock Edelbrock head was in the 285 cfm range out of the box. 100 CFM HIGHER FLOW VS A STOCK PONTIAC HEAD.

So now Edelbrock heads (not Pro Ports either) are typically in the 375 - 380 range cfm (when ported) or 200 cfm better than a stock cast iron Pontiac head.

Those are real numbers that can be verified by many.

Tom V.

Tom,
Since the edelbrock is based on the RAIV head. Why did you not use the RAIV flow for the stock head? Plus edelbrock also has a 275 cfm version.

275 - 240 = 35 cfm difference

Stan

PS What stock heads with 2.11" intakes only flowed high 180's?