[taff2]

Now that is what I call service. A couple of posts about additional machining costs and these guys are on it,fixed it, and the blocks upgraded too. Can't fault you.

[mgarblik]

These are significant upgrades and make great engine block even better! The smaller feed to the cam bearings will just help that area, even though it hasn't been an issue on the IA II block. Line honing the cam tunnel especially make it nicer for a guy not working with a well equipped machine shop. Line honing the mains eliminates a machine shop messing up that critical machining operation. For those looking for a bargain, you just got one. Most shops charge about $300.00 + to line hone a cam tunnel and main tunnel. It's like a discount on the block and the block is better all around. Great job.

[Robert C.]

When they hone the cam and main tunnels they use an air gauge. It is also CNC controlled. When I check a block here at AP it was right on the money.

The deck height was 10.240 tall. The factory has a call out of 10.232 We ask for .008 higher. This is so the customer can deck it to what ever they need.

You know I have to laugh when some Engine machine shop tell a customer (the block is .003 out of square and the pistons are .008 in the hole) and they tell you that you must square the deck and cut it to zero clearance and the cost is $450.00 bucks. This is a money maker for them. The customer does not know what .008 thousands is. In layman's terms: = 2 1/2 hairs in thickness. Now how much horse power is that really for $450.00 bucks? How much loss of compression is that? And you can't check it and did they do it? Another thing that happens they charge you to hone a block when they can just install a over or under main bearings set to get the clearances right. So much bull crap is told to customers to make you think they are the best and no one is a better engine builder then they are. But none of them stand behind there work when it blows up because they never make a mistake, it is always the Rods broke or the crankshaft was bad. Never that they over torque the rod bolts or forgot to tighten this or that.

Customer should always have the shop take them to the back and show them first hand that this is out or this is bad. See for yourself and learn and ask questions.

So we do as much as we can to make it right so the customer does not have to deal with the above.

[Todd1035]

Have you ever aluminum main caps for these? could it be done?

[ErikW]

Why

[Todd1035]

Weight savings

[mgarblik]

We have used allot of Indian Adventures blocks and then All Pontiac IA II and now the Aluminum block. Each generation of these blocks in my experience has been just a little better than the previous generation. The machining gets better, material improvements, subtle design improvements. But I can say from the very beginning these blocks have been delivered within factory tolerances, meaning they could be run, as delivered after a cylinder hone to size. Now Bob says these new blocks are line honed and delivered "on spec." That means better than factory tolerance or to blueprint. So for even the most extreme application, you may not need to touch the line bore or deck.

It's true a machine shop can take a perfectly good block and make it worse than it was when it arrived. I just can't over stress the importance of having honest, caring people involved in machining your blocks and heads. There are a good number of people who post on here that fill the bill. The All Pontiac aluminum block we ran the 6.02 with was run with the "as delivered line hone" and deck height.

Originally Posted by Robert C.

When they hone the cam and main tunnels they use an air gauge. It is also CNC controlled. When I check a block here at AP it was right on the money.

The deck height was 10.240 tall. The factory has a call out of 10.232 We ask for .008 higher. This is so the customer can deck it to what ever they need.

You know I have to laugh when some Engine machine shop tell a customer (the block is .003 out of square and the pistons are .008 in the hole) and they tell you that you must square the deck and cut it to zero clearance and the cost is $450.00 bucks. This is a money maker for them. The customer does not know what .008 thousands is. In layman's terms: = 2 1/2 hairs in thickness. Now how much horse power is that really for $450.00 bucks? How much loss of compression is that? And you can't check it and did they do it? Another thing that happens they charge you to hone a block when they can just install a over or under main bearings set to get the clearances right. So much bull crap is told to customers to make you think they are the best and no one is a better engine builder then they are. But none of them stand behind there work when it blows up because they never make a mistake, it is always the Rods broke or the crankshaft was bad. Never that they over torque the rod bolts or forgot to tighten this or that.

Customer should always have the shop take them to the back and show them first hand that this is out or this is bad. See for yourself and learn and ask questions.

So we do as much as we can to make it right so the customer does not have to deal with the above.

[Aaron Quinton]

800 would be better lol.

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Thats......FUNNY! LOL!

GTO George

[hurryinhoosier62]

Robert and Frank, have you guys ever considered casting a block in CGI? I know Dart offers it as an option.

[Robert C.]

Yes, we casted 4 blocks. It only works with special tooling.

The customer base is not there to continue trying to develop the type block.

The Aluminum is a bigger customer base.

[Jack Gifford]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

... The All Pontiac aluminum block we ran the 6.02 with was run with the "as delivered line hone" and deck height...

That's an "irrefutable testament".

[grandville455]

This is Awesome! Is the price still the same with the additional machining?

[joes455]

Nice upgrades Frank .Their is one other upgrade,how about adding two little block drain plugs,one being just below and outboard of the large water passages I think would be nice for cam changes.Provide quick access for drain just enough coolant.These plugs should mimic the ones located on side of block

[Tom Vaught]

Just my thought, joes455:

If you want drilled holes in the block and want them threaded for the drains like a factory block then you need a boss around each threaded hole like the factory did or you might have a stress riser in your $$$ block. Then a cracked block.

I have just removed the lower radiator hose, removed the timing cover, jacked the back of the car up, (after sealing the oil pan area with gaffers tape), the water level is then lowered (below the core plug next to the camshaft), and off we went on the camshaft change.
Maybe I have just been lucky on that deal.

Tom V.

Forgot, front wheels are always blocked on a 2x10 wheel stop so the front is already 1/5" higher. Then when the back is raised the front tires are fixed so the rear axle does not slide off the hydraulic jack. Safety First.

[Robert C.]

Originally Posted by joes455

Nice upgrades Frank .Their is one other upgrade,how about adding two little block drain plugs,one being just below and outboard of the large water passages I think would be nice for cam changes.Provide quick access for drain just enough coolant.These plugs should mimic the ones located on side of block

We already have them. And you can just Un screw a freeze plug too.

And we have oiling for a Turbo on the front of the block too.

And screw in freeze plugs for the people that are not aware of that too.

[ponjohn]

I saw a photo where someone had and AN fitting threaded into the freeze plug on the side of the block....why?

[charlie66]

Drain plug?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Robert C.

We already have them. And you can just Un screw a freeze plug too.

And we have oiling for a Turbo on the front of the block too.

And screw in freeze plugs for the people that are not aware of that too.

Bob's deal might would work very well. His block has threads in all 3 core plug hole points and All Pontiac blocks use the aluminum threaded core plugs vs "hammer in" freeze plugs.

My question would be (for anyone) if you removed the rear core plug, would the water level be very much below the timing cover/water pump passage holes in the front of the block?
Never really measured the hole heights. Also how much access to those plugs do you have when the engine is installed and the starter/clutch hardware is in place?

Tom V.

[Robert C.]

We always had 1/8 MPT tapped drain holes on each side of our all our blocks.

[Tom Vaught]

Thanks Bob, Have had several of your blocks over the years.
Just never had a chance to actually inspect everything on the blocks
as most times they went to others before I got a chance to use them.
You know all about that deal (;>)

Tom V.