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#1401
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I just can't believe that on page 70 we are finally done on this!! I do feel for Joe's obvious frustrations in this especially since it has been his introduction to the hobby. But I've got to say that Paul has been a stand-up guy in my dealings with him and seems to be standing to it now. I only had a crank done by him but when his supplier packed the bearings poorly and they got marked up in transit Paul replaced them without me asking and without charge to me. I'd have Paul build anything for me.
And that's the other thing. Here I am on the arse end of the planet doing my own work in the worst conditions. A lot of "big" builders wouldn't even want to touch being involved with me and my living room engine build. Paul put up with piston and rod weight measurements that were done by me in the most unorthodox fashion. He put up with a customer who would never make him much money, was guaranteed to be difficult logistically to deal with, and who could only ever represent a risk to his reputation when I go and screw up something in the build and blame him (potentially). Paul took it on, anyway. He treated my piddly job with enough seriousness and priority to get it done amongst all the other deadlines. Again, a lot of "bigshot" builders might have buried a piddly job like mine for a year or more. Every time I chased him (though I tend to be polite) he wasn't offended. I really can't say enough good about my dealings with him. There are a large number of people here that have offered essential and helpful advice and information but there are literally two guys without whom I would not be driving now. Those are Paul and Jay (with a special mention to Cliff who has always helped everyone here for as long as I can remember). Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod Last edited by glhs#116; 09-23-2019 at 03:40 AM. |
#1402
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Quote:
Seems plausible.... Except for the part about Iowa |
#1403
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LOL.. that's funny!
Glad to hear the hear this was FINALLY figured out. Hopefully this will get resolved where everybody is satisfied because life is too short... I would be willing to donate $20.00 towards some beer... and a smokey burnout!!
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'71 GTO, 406 CID, 60916, 1.65 HS, '69 #46 Heads 230CFM, 800CFM Q-jet, TH400, 12 Bolt 3.55 '72 Lemans, Lucerne Blue, WU2, T41, L78, M22, G80 |
#1404
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GREAT TO SEE THIS CAR FINALLY BEING DRIVEN! Lots of possibilities on what started this, no reason to throw Paul under the bus (& I don't know either of these guys).
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Chris D 69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60' |
#1405
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Paul, In my attempted explanation of what caused a piston skirt to collapse, I didn't know anything about something getting into the #5 cylinder. That could have been in the nearly 1400 posts somewhere, but I missed it. I also thought the bearing failure somewhere along the line was more serious and since I know you like a tight quench, I could see the piston contacting the head in a failure situation and collapsing a skirt. Your explanation makes just as much sense and you were there! When I began building engines decades ago, pistons came in a box with the nominal size on the box only, not actual measured sizes. It was up to the builder 100% to measure each piston in several places, do all kinds of math and averages and either hone each cylinder to the piston or hone to an average. Cast pistons were usually +- .0015 through a set and forged .003. As you know even today, forged custom pistons are still kind of all over the map. It's very unfortunate you guys and the engine owner got bit by this series of events. There are always a few rock throwers, experts chiming in from the sidelines as other's struggle. It's just more public with the internet and message boards. I doubt very seriously you would be in business for decades and have a reputation where people are willing to send their engines from all over the country to have your shop work on them. So to implicate that without a public forum you would have washed your hands of this engine is unfair IMO. Again, WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES. The shop I have worked out of for 30 years 5 years ago had 8 of the 10 top qualifiers in NHRA Stock and Super Stock at the US Nationals and is a builder of Australian Pro Stock engines they ship back and forth all year. 2 man shop. Mistakes are still made, few and far between. When they happen, just like this Pontiac, the problem is eventually found and corrected.
One of the worst I had happen that relates to this Pontiac, happened on the dyno. We had the jam nut that holds the air temperature sensor in the Superflow air hat vibrate loose and fall through the carburetor of a new engine on it's 3rd. or 4th pull. It bounced all through the engine, breaking 2 sleeves, bending valves and cracked a head. Lots of time and money lost because of a small jam nut. It was about the size of a car radio stem nut. Personally, this whole drama should do more positive good for your business in the long run. If I didn't do all my own work, your shop would be on my short list. Take care. |
#1406
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OCMDGTO,
Nobody threw Paul under the bus. Lets get that part straight right now. Originally I never mentioned the failed dyno pull on the forum because I know mistakes happen. I know Paul is a good guy and builds a great product. From the day of the failed dyno pull, I have handled (and continue to handle this) better than a majority of people to include guys on this forum. When a $7,800 motor costs you $12,175, anyone would be upset. There were times when Paul and I both lost our cool but at the end of the day, it was great that he came to Virginia but it was just as great that I allowed him to stay at my house. I think we both had a good time getting to know one another. Paul met my family, friends and half of my neighborhood that has been walking by my house for the last two years watching me try to get this motor fixed. So Paul and I both handled this the way it should have been handled and anything Paul and I work out will not be shared with anyone on this forum. Funny story, I see Paul standing on the side of my house taking pictures of my backyard. I thought he was taking pictures of the pond. I say "Paul, what the hell are you taking pictures of"? Paul says "These trees, we don't have these trees in Arizona". I don't know if Paul was more impressed with the trees or grass but that was funny as hell. When Paul found out that I have a Long John Silvers near my house, I thought he was going to stay another week! Hahahaha Last edited by Va68goat; 09-23-2019 at 10:38 AM. |
#1407
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So glad you set that straight Paul, and for doing all that you did. It shows what kind of guy you really are and the stand up work you guys do at the shop. I am however disappointed just as you are Paul at the forum here and several people in particular that threw you under the bus without knowing really any of the back story and what you've done to this point, let alone know who you are as a person and what you guys stand for. That is uncalled for and unfortunate, but not surprising.
This whole deal unfolding on the forum here should do nothing but encourage people to deal with Paul, and my self and others I know that have first hand experience with Paul will continue to support Paul with business as usual. Excellent work Paul, you went above and beyond what most any other shop would do that I've had experience with. Now get out there and enjoy that engine Joe. |
#1408
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I haven't paid a ton of attention but it sure looks like both the customer and the engine builder conducted themselves like reasonable adults and as a consequence everything worked out in the end. A lesson for all of us.
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#1409
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Formulajones,
Good to see you're back! I, along with many people on this forum, think that it was great that Paul came to Virginia and addressed the problem. It was the right thing to do. In the same token and spirit, most would say I handled this as well as Paul did. Unfortunately Paul and I threw jabs at each other earlier in the process and that is expected. We were able to move past that and the problem was addressed and fixed. That's what adults do! Having this situation play out on the forum benefitted me, Paul and other forum members. Paul should be applauded for sticking it out and standing by his work product. I'm pretty sure there are forum members that have experienced bad builders that don't stand by their work. In this specific case and situation, the right thing was done by both parties involved and the end result was what it should be. I got a great motor and Paul gets credit for building yet another bad ass motor that he stood behind till the end. Last edited by Va68goat; 09-23-2019 at 12:26 PM. |
#1410
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What a mess.
Im glad it's resolved for the OPs sake. Hopefully it doesn't sour him on Pontiacs.
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
#1411
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Wasn't directed at you VA68. There's a beer in my fridge w your name on it if you ever make it to OC. Hope to see your car in person at some point
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Chris D 69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60' |
#1412
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72projectbird,
I appreciate that. I don't quit too easily and I follow through with everything that I start and everything that I say I'm going to do. I'm already thinking about what else I could do to this car. The two things that I'm thinking about is suspension and A/C. I love this car. It's not going anywhere! |
#1413
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OCMDGTO,
Appreciate that. I see you're not too far away. Grivera has told me about a nice car cruise that happens there. I'd like to make it up for that sometime and I'll be happy to have that beer! |
#1414
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Quote:
I think anyone in their right mind could agree the root cause should have been remedied when the owner paid the long distance shipping bill back and then the second dyno. The pistons were removed from their bores? If not, why not? |
#1415
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I believe the spun bearing comment originated from post #784
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears '64 LeMans 400/461, #16 Heads, HR 230/236, TKO600, 9inch Rear, 3.89 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: Non-running project Last edited by grivera; 09-23-2019 at 03:20 PM. |
#1416
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The outcome of this thread is fantastic. There have been other discrepancy threads and they went sideways on post #3, let alone 71 pages.
Well done. |
#1417
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Congrats to all involved. Hopefully the car can get back to ruining tires. I want to see some smoky gopro footage of this thing getting crossed up.
So where did the damaged piston go? It should be on Joe's desk as a serious conversation piece.
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
#1418
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Quote:
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
#1419
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#1420
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Closed Thread |
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