[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GTO 4MA:
Quote Brian Baker:

"Other than the skin they're wrapped in, there isn't a single Pontiac in any form of Pro class racing that shares anything with we enjoy personally within the hobby."

Who's we? You?

"You make it sound as if POCI officers were involved from the first one, but they weren't. It was the hard work of members that wanted racing with the convention that got all of the ducks in a row."

You seem to know a lot about the drag racing event history of POCI. Just who were the members that supported and helped organize the drag races prior to 2004?

"POCI never brought up the inclusion of GMC's until GM merged the sales divisions of Pontiac and GMC. Prior to this, the idea of inclusion wasn't even a fart in the wind."

So you're saying including GMC in POCI was never discussed prior to the merger of the sales divisions. How do you know this?

"but has it really swelled the membership ranks?"

Who said it would swell the membership ranks?

"POCI is a great organization, but even great ones have flaws."

As a member of POCI, don't you think it would be more productive to put your efforts towards helping out rather than bashing POCI on an internet web site? Do you plan on attending and participating in this year's drag event at Atlanta Dragway? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your question "who's we, you?" further proves your ignorance towards Pontiac involvement in Pro racing. Aside from the few diehards that race traditional Pontiac powered cars in NHRA Stock and Super Stock classes, there is nothing in any form of Pro class racing that even remotely resembles or shares anything within the hobby...the hobby that POCI is built around.

Prior to Arnie Beswick speaking at one of POCI's get-togethers two years ago, POCI officers were reluctant to include drag racing in with the convention. I don't know any members personally that got these races together prior to 2004, but I do know that those in "managerial" positions at POCI (ie - officers) certainly weren't involved. It was made clear every year that the race was not part of the convention, but held seperately "in conjunction with". I'm just glad to see that POCI has heeded Arnie's advice.

Let me rephrase about the GMC inclusion issue. It was brought up at least once before since 1990, and it was shot down. After GM brought the Pontiac and GMC sales divisions together, it was brought back up again, and for some reason this time, it was voted in. I need to look no further than my back issues of Smoke Signals for the club officers reasonings behind the inclusion, and number one on their list was to increase membership. I don't disagree with that reasoning, all I am saying is, it didn't work as well as they had hoped.

I'd like to get to another convention someday, especially now that there's racing directly involved, but it won't happen this year as my going away plans for Pontiac events are already occupied with Jim Zeek's race at VMP and the biggie at Norwalk. As for making POCI better? I've pulled my fair share of helping with POCI on a local level, as well as with other organizations, and frankly, it's a thankless job that you're never appreciated in. That's why I rarely help anymore.

I would have sent this reply to you via email, but you don't have one in your profile.

[GTO 4MA]

Brian:

you stated -

"further proves your ignorance towards Pontiac involvement in Pro racing"

I guess I'm not really sure what you are saying, other than you have been quick to shoot in your previous posts,as well as in this one. You purport to have an extensive knowledge of the inner workings and politics of POCI, yet failed to name any of the individuals that had anything to do with any of the past POCI drag races.

Now you state that Arnie Beswick had something to do with POCI including drag racing as part of each convention. Where did you get that information, or is this just another blind "shot from the hip". I can assure you that Arnie, although well loved and respected by all, had really nothing to do with it.

Insurance issues were probably the single biggest reason POCI was not directly involved in convention related drag events in the past. That issue seems to have been resolved.

Statements like the one you made below simply are not true.

"but I do know that those in "managerial" positions at POCI (ie - officers) certainly weren't involved."

Perhaps the best thing you could do for POCI now is not to slam POCI with misstatements on these chat room websites.

Thanks!

[Brian Baker]

Publicly post your email address and I'd be more than happy to carry any such "conversations" as this off the boards. Or reply to me via email, my address is posted in my profile.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GTO 4MA:

Insurance issues were probably the single biggest reason POCI was not directly involved in convention related drag events in the past. That issue seems to have been resolved.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FWIW:
This would not be a factor as that is covered by the track when renting the facility for any single day event or testing. All ya need is RACE money.
I inquired years ago and was told......... by a very reliable source I shall call Deepthroat, LOL. that 90% of the members were into the hanging out, eating and the show aspect, plus the fact of the constantly changing different locations the event is held at.
But I think they took a look at the Southern Nationals held in Texas as an example. Great car show with lots of racers.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

[warriors revenge]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now you state that Arnie Beswick had something to do with POCI including drag racing as part of each convention. Where did you get that information, or is this just another blind "shot from the hip". I can assure you that Arnie, although well loved and respected by all, had really nothing to do with it.

Insurance issues were probably the single biggest reason POCI was not directly involved in convention related drag events in the past. That issue seems to have been resolved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


you are guilty of the same thing you are slaming someone else for!!

kal
www.xtremefabrication.com

[Goathead]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But I think they took a look at the Southern Nationals held in Texas as an example. Great car show with lots of racers.
Correct me if I'm wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ken, that is the way Southern Nationals is. Lots of good people, food, hanging out and dynamight racing. Another record run here this past weekend, it was a blast...

[boykoman]

I had a 500 motor done by the Butlers years ago.When I first got the motor running shortly after I was losing oil pressure.Jim told me to get the motor back to him and I did .A faulty oil pump.Replaced at no charge and no more problem.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RPM:
Do engine builders guarantee their work? Well at least one I know does. A friend of mine had his engine done by a Pontiac engine builder and guess what, oil pump problems developed shortly afterward. Engine was taken to him intact. He opened it up, discovered his screw-up and made the necessary repairs. No cost to the customer except for his labor (and mine) to R&R the engine. The way it should be. After all, there was considerable work involved, transport and misc expenses incurred related to this "oversight" that he didn't reimburse. What happened is that when he inspected the pump he forgot to tighten the check ball spring nut. It vibrated, loosened and fell off into the pan. Of course this didn't help oil pressure much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[*67firebird*]

IM glad i read this post, i was going to take my stroker kit and block to him and have him blueprint, balance, bore, etc. to my engine, but i guess that would have been the worst mistake ever.

I guess i need to look for a new builder In southern Cali. Anyone near me? Im now going to be very careful with the engine builders i used to believe that if the builders have a web site then they must be good builders, boy i was wrong, do you guys recommend anyone in South Cali?,

[Ron]

Two in Southern California.

RSB Motorsports in Yorba Linda, CA
714-307-8373....ask for Bill
http://www.rsbmotorsports.net

Pacific Performance Racing in San Pedro, CA
310-832-4596....ask for Ken
http://www.pacificperformanceracing.com

[*67firebird*]

thanks for that at RSB Motorsports it has a list of Machine work they do it has nothing about boring or balancing, do they do it?

[Ron]

They do it all. Bill Takababe who owns a '65 GTO runs 8.80's at 150 MPH.

[dragrcr]

OSVALDO There is another shop in Upland.It is PURE PONTIAC they have a full machine shop and you can go to PONTIAC ZONE and see his site.They are doing a 505 being shown in HOT ROD and also doing a 474 for car craft.You can contact Andy at 909-831-9006.Check them out on PONTIAC ZONE.

[JLHarper]

I bought a 505CI Pump Gas from Andy that is soon to be finished last report.
I will be happy to discuss any of the details of this combo or the work if you wish.
Havent received yet but due in two weeks + few days.
Jeff

[gobrdgo]

I have an engine at Andy's also, if you are reading this hurry up Andy! I've checked out your 505 and it's beautiful, Your ventura isn't too shabby either.

[Big Mike]

Years ago Indian Adventures/Chiefmanyhorses built an engine for me. There was a wrist pin that wanted out after only a few passes. They made the whole deal good including shipping! Maybe Mr. Fulper won't back his work that well, but I'll never deal with him. I'm sold on the Pontiaction boys forever! That engine is still running strong.

[69LeMans350]

The first time I heard of bruce fulper I was still an infant in the pontiac world and I saw a Car Craft article where he built a 540 horsepower 350P with 672 hp on the spray--I was pretty impressed considering most people on this board did not even consider a 350 for performance usage. I felt as though I would be a purveyor of an "underdog of the pontiac world" as I saw it, and everytime bruce bashing would come up on this bored I would bite my tounge (er, hand)and keep quiet about it. After a number of first hand experiences with bruce I came to find him very informative (he showed me the new tomahawk intake with the "made in china" casting ground off of it as well as every port in the intake being a different size-not a good castine at all) and he educated me with a few other things. In this time I also learned that he was a complete arrogant ass and badmouthed pretty much everyone in the world except for himself. /for some time, I gave him the benefit of the doubt that he was just concerned about the pontiac world.. then my father wanted an engine biult by him and bruce was practically insulting him ("everytime some numbnuts come in...) before my dad was gonna write hima $10,000 check--we did not do that. Thank God.

[69LeMans350]

Sorry I got cut short on my rant..
Anyway, my father still has that 10 large to his name and he is finding another builder to assemble his 467. I used to think that brace was simply misunderstood, but now I know better. I am positive that he is very capable of building great pontiac engines, but he cuts corners (probably due to lack of help) and can end up building crap--the absolute turning point with bruce for my dad and I was when he said "I could pretty much put anything in your engine and you would'nt know the differnce"--I mean my dad's hand was on the checkbook in his pocket; what an asshat! Bruce may be able to build a good engine, but his PR sucks bigtime, he just has a horrible attitude and does not treat someone who is about to give him a small fortune in the right manner. I am glad I wont become one of the people who absloutely loathe bruce due to a bad engine build on his behalf.

What I dont get is that hes still in business and has many customers despite his problems--hasnt anybody successfully sued him? or at least beat him up?

[gobrdgo]

I'm looking forward to seeing him at the track someday, We'll talk bout the old times, Won't that be fun Brucey ole friend?

[rompn63]

For what its worth, the first time I met Bruce he went by the name of Bruce Buick. I never had a problems with him but I never had any money dealings with him either.

[mzbk2l]

OK, let me jump on this thread and be different just to get everyone wound up. I did have some dealings with Bruce a number of years ago, and didn't get treated in the same manner as most of the above posts....

Back in 1995 or so, before there were so many aftermarket parts for Pontiacs (and before I had heard of the internet, PY Forums, etc.), I saw RRE's ads in most of the Pontiac mags. I decided to use Bruce to put together a 455 for use in an '81 Black and Gold T/A I had at the time. I contacted him by phone several times to discuss a good combination and where I should buy parts and have machine work done. I was generally able to get ahold of him, and he usually had time to stay on the phone for a while to talk about it with me.

After playing around with my new flex-shaft dremel and removing all the casting flash from the crank and rods, I shipped those parts to him and placed an order for the rest of the stuff I would need for the bottom end. I told him at that time that I wasn't in any rush; this was a long-term project. (I had the machine work on the block done locally; I was in VA in the Navy, and he's in CA, so that made sense).

After a couple of weeks I called him to check on the status. The rods were done, but he told me he'd made a mistake and shipped my crank (which I'd spent some time on with the dremel) to another customer. He didn't offer any excuses, he just found another 455 crank, had someone do the same polishing work on that one that I'd done on mine, and shipped me that one instead. No hassles, he just took care of the problem.

All in all, I ordered through him: JE Ultralight pistons, Total Seal rings, an oil pump, a timing chain, and ARP main studs, as well as the work on the crank and rods. The stuff all came when he said it would, the prices seemed comparable to what I'd seen elsewhere, and I really didn't have any problem with my dealings with him.

To top it off, when I met him in person that year at the T/A Nats in Ohio (1996), he was pretty generous with his beer! :)

I haven't dealt with him since, because I ran out of money before I could get my Edelbrock heads, but based solely on my own experience I wouldn't have any trouble working with him again.

Just my .02, and I'm sure sorry to hear what some of you have had to go through - I'd be blowing off some steam, too! (Just be glad you aren't trying to build an Olds and have to deal with Mondello; he makes RRE sound like the Better Business Bureau.)