[necdb3]

https://motor-junkie.com/15-things-g...t-now/31524/4/

[1965gp]

That is a really good article.

Makes you wonder how they win all these JD Power awards.

My base Ram 1500 had fewer rattles and issues than my Z71 at 50k miles

[66sprint6]

Bring back Hummer?

[Sirrotica]

Gotta love the part where they say getting rid of Pontiac and Hummer was a big mistake...…………

Having 2 redundant lines of the same truck (chevy/GMC) is a great idea, just ask the experts....

[1funride]

I had a 2005 GMC Sierra 1500 that reliably set a check engine lite monthly, every possible issue became reality for me, I gave up writing them all down. Then of course the head porosity leaking antifreeze into the oil. The rust and part failure were the worst I have ever experienced with all my vehicles combined. Dealers fighting with you about everything, 13 service bulletins on the steering wheel knock........on and on. I swore I would never buy another GM product, and haven't and wont unless its an old car. The folks I know that owned chevys ran into the endless problems to include the SUVs, and I am taking a bunch of people, none of them drive a GM now. If your a GM loyalist sorry, but GM had better start doing a better job if they want to survive.

[locomotivebreath]

I bought an 04 Silverado new , kept it 9 years and 76k milesd never had much go wrong . The gauges were replaced under warranty , belt pulley went out and the high speed blower quit . My 150 however is a better truck all around .

[unruhjonny]

frankly, I thought it was a well written piece.
I liked it enough to share it on my facebook page.
Even if the Pontiac (and Hummer) brands stay dead, GM can easily streamline their product line to reduce overlap, and buyer confusion.
Frankly, selling the same car with different badges was always a dumb move in my opinion.
I know my car (2009 Cobalt) has had a recall on it, but I love the car - and I stress the car part of that statement.
I wouldn't consider buying a cross over or SUV, period.

What I don't get, and I have looked into it, is why the Mustang and Camaro's (with both cars bigger than my Cobalt), cannot have rear passenger room similar to my car - and both appear to have about the same sized trunk as my Cobalt.
I can fit in the back seat of my Cobalt with a six foot passenger in front - you can't do that in the Camaro or Mustang.
What the Mustang right now have over the Challenger is an option to get a turbo-four with a stick... which to me reads as the ability to get great mileage - which is paramount to me.
but the Challneger has a useable back seat, and spacious trunk.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Just had a conversation with my BIL (active mechanic) about a new vehicle for me. His advice: NOTHING from GM.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

Just had a conversation with my BIL (active mechanic) about a new vehicle for me. His advice: NOTHING from GM.

This is why I don't post much in in threads like this anymore. I am sixty years old and have driven GM vehicles my WHOLE driving life. I have also owned and driven Fords, Toyotas, and even BMWs. My current daily driver, a 2004 GTO has been in my possession since new and has been terrific and required nothing more than a thermostat change. There is NO other 2004 vehicle I would trade my GTO for, or even 2017 vehicle. In fact, I wouldn't trade it for anything!

I'm not as much of a GM fan as I used to be simply because they currently offer nothing I'm interested in, NOT because of an inferior product. My wife wants a XT5, and I will oblige without hesitation because GM products have served me well.

Mechanics these days aren't necessarily people you can place your "trust" in as they bitch and complain about how "hard" a job is and they prefer easier money. Being a mechanically inclined person and having wrenched on many cars myself, I am fully aware of the bs they present.

Bottom line is that there are NO brands out there without their own set of issues, and being American, I'm going to support the American Brands, regardless where they are built. A Toyota built in Tennessee is still a Japanese car. People rant about Cadillacs and Buicks being made in China, but somehow seem to have no problem with foreign brands being made here. Sure, the jobs are here, but why the double standard?

If you would like for me to list the makes I'd stay away from based on MY daily exposure, I will. Hint H/K/F/J/M/BMW/D/J/R, etc. Sure, they are all fine when they are brand new, but a year or so down the road??????? Ask people how many times the Chrysler people have had issues with those rotary shifters, or the push button start. Ask them about the frustration when the dash message says "no key fob detected", or about when you rotated that shift knob to drive and it kept going back to park. I detest those rotary shifters and will NEVER buy a vehicle so equipped. Nor will I ever buy a FCA product. Ford, who used to be my second favorite car maker has adopted this nonsense as well

Bottom line, it is simply not fair to single out GM for issues (which in the end are far less complex to diagnose and fix) when ALL makes have issues.

If you look at new cars today, it's almost like the constant barrage of updates on your computer, or cell phone. There is ALWAYS something requiring attention. Sorry, I'll take an old GM over ANYTHING new. And the new GM's are no worse than anybody else.

[pont3]

Just to be clear, I'm NOT as big of a GM fan as I once was. I have never forgiven GM for eliminating Pontiac as I stayed true to the very end. I have a 2006 GTO sitting in my garage with only 11,000 miles that I bought new. SO I have reasons to be upset with gm as well. I still maintain that the demise of Pontiac led to the rise of Hyundai/Kia. My 30 yo neighbor who had a 2006 Mustang GT when he bought the house across from me traded it for a 2013 Camaro SS, Now, he is driving a Kia Stinger. And he is not married or has kids or any reason to "need" a four-door car. It's just that GM had nothing in the fold that garnered his attention. Pontiac could have done that.

[64speed]

My 2001 GMC is going strong. Over 350000 miles with nothing but a front bearing replacement and full and oil. Had a grinding noise coming from the front wheel so I thought it was the bearing but it turn out to be the cheap ass duralast break pads that didn’t last 10000 miles. Went ahead and changed the bearing cause I had it and put new front brake pads on. Also I replaced the water pump but that’s it

[77 Canamman]

NO issues with any late model GM's. I have bought 3 brand new GM trucks since 2013, and one new GM car in 2007.

[OCMDGTO]

I've had great success with 3 Chevy pickups bought new since 2001. All were gas engines that I put a lot of miles on. My plan is to always have one and an old GTO til it's dirt nap time.

[61-63]

I've owned two Chevy pickups (still have one) and have a number of friends and relatives with Chevy/GMC vehicles and they are well made and reliable vehicles.

If you look the writer up and see stuff he has written about he isn't really a car writer but just a writer. He makes his living writing about all manner of stuff so not really an expert on anything. There are many writers and commentators like him they have to write and talk in order to make a living. I wouldn't put too much stock in anything any of them come up with.

[stags]

2008 Silverado 2500, gas engine, auto. 230,000 and counting. Had some rear electrical issues around 170,000 but a new harness solved that. Otherwise pretty dependable and trouble-free. Still tows my car/enclosed trailer just fine.

[unruhjonny]

I definitely believe that the way that GM handles quality issues changed after the bailout, which leads to worsened perception of their vehicles.
I don't believe that they are any worse than they have been for hte last twenty years;
I think perception has changed.

I am not anti-GM per say, but I am admittedly still a bit bitter about the loss of, and how/why we lost Pontiac.

I had no idea GM was thinking of going the way Ford has, and killing off pretty much all their cars - I think this is a terrible strategy - there is still a good market for cars, especially compact and midsized cars - that these automakers are handing over to their competition.

I think instead of walking away, they should streamline, and forget this nonsense of flooding their dealers with cars they don't ask for...
Build less, build as demand warrants, and build better... none of this crap like the launch of the cruize where the steering wheels were falling off.

I believe a factor not really touched on as of yet is that in the mid to late 1990's teh other two domestic brands made great strides to bridge the quality gap between them and GM - and with today's technology, I believe all auto makers are making quite similar quality products.

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by 61-63

...If you look the writer up and see stuff he has written about he isn't really a car writer but just a writer. He makes his living writing about all manner of stuff so not really an expert on anything...

This.

Then I ran into this nonsense and stopped reading as I realized the author wrote a fluffy nothing of note:

"Domestic automakers are governed by a union labor force which means the union controls production"

German Labor Councils waves hello

[keith k]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

What I don't get, and I have looked into it, is why the Mustang and Camaro's (with both cars bigger than my Cobalt), cannot have rear passenger room similar to my car - and both appear to have about the same sized trunk as my Cobalt.
I can fit in the back seat of my Cobalt with a six foot passenger in front - you can't do that in the Camaro or Mustang.
What the Mustang right now have over the Challenger is an option to get a turbo-four with a stick... which to me reads as the ability to get great mileage - which is paramount to me.
but the Challneger has a useable back seat, and spacious trunk.

Hi Jonny,
There are a few big reasons why Mustangs/Camaros don't have the interior roominess and rear seat space that a Cobalt does.

It starts with the powertrain/driveline orientation. As Cobalts are transverse front engine, and FWD only, there's nothing running under the passenger compartment but a single exhaust pipe. No massive transmission that can handle 600 ft-lbs of torque, no big driveshaft with a center bearing to allow it rotate at speeds approaching 200 mph, no 2-3/4" dual exhaust, etc. So the Cobalt doesn't need to have the big tunnel that the Mustangs and Camaros have.

Next there's the fuel tank. All of these cars have the fuel tank under the rear seat. But in the Mustang and Camaro, the fuel tank loses space relative to the Cobalt because there needs to be room for the aforementioned driveshaft and large exhaust pipes. On top of that, because V8 Mustangs and Camaros burn a lot more fuel than a Cobalt, but their drivers expect similar range between fill-ups, the pony cars need to carry more fuel. Your Cobalt has (I believe...) a 13 gallon tank. A 2020 Camaro has a 19 gallon tank. When you consider that modern fuel tanks need to maintain a volume of vapor space that's proportional to the liquid space... the Camaro tank is likely ~8 gallons larger inside. All of this consumes real estate that goes into passenger space on a Cobalt.

Then there's the rear suspensions. The Cobalt has a torsion beam... a simple suspension that consumes very little space in any direction. The Mustang and Camaro have independent rear suspensions with large subframes to carry differentials, upper and lower lateral suspension arms, etc. So more space taken away from passengers and cargo on the pony cars.

The final big piece of the puzzle is tires. Nothing on a car consumes more space than the 4 tires and the clearances required to allow them to travel through their range of suspension and steering motion. The largest wheel and tire package on a Cobalt I could find (SS) was 225 mm wide and 630 mm in diameter. Mustangs and Camaros package tires up to 305 mm wide and 700 mm in diameter. The room to do that comes out of the interior/cargo space.

And there's more to this: Mustangs and Camaros have significantly stiffer bodies than Cobalts, do -- thick rocker and body rail sections, thicker pillars, etc. But they're also wider, so we'll call that a wash.

Anyway... hope the above helps clarify a bit why it's possible for a Cobalt to have more interior space than pony cars like the Mustang and Camaro. The Challenger has a nice back seat, but it accomplishes it simply by being huge (and heavy...).

Apologies if I got a bit long-winded, ...but it's a topic that, as a vehicle architecture engineer with experience doing RWD performance cars, is near and dear to my heart

[unruhjonny]

wow!

Thanks for that Keith!!

I had guessed on some of the points, but had otherwise found it completely baffling why an all around larger car had less passenger room than my "funny little yellow car"

[tom s]

My wife is on her 5th Escalade with no issues.I have been driving GM SUVs from Envoys,Terrian,Yukons and Silverados as long as I can remember with no issue.To be honest we never keep a car over 80-90 thousand miles.My 2005 Silverado has 91 on it now and will keep it as my beater.FWIW,Tom