[242177P]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

For a short while that was the case. Once again, GM tried screwing the public citing that the "new" GM was not responsible for anything related to the "old" GM, warranties included. That action mysteriously and quietly went away. Go figure.

Umm, yeah, about that... if there ever was a mystery, I just solved it.

http://www.nysb.uscourts.gov/sites/d...22_opinion.pdf

[Scarebird]

GM paid back the loan strictly according to the Treasury's term, but keep whining about it anyway...

https://www.fool.com/investing/gener...taxpayers.aspx

[beertracker]

This article convinced me of one thing; sell my GM stock.

[1965gp]

I agree the article is an opinion piece- it has definitely done its job here getting some of us fired up.

Quality aside as I think we have proven all manufacturers have problems (currently my 17 Z71 and 15 Hellcat both have recalls on them) GM doesn’t have much that appeals to me.

I like flash- spoilers, wings, scoops, stripes, etc. that’s why I gravitated towards Pontiac. I’m not a Corvette guy (although the new one looks cool) and the only thing left is the Camaro. I don’t mind the looks of it but having two kids it pretty much rules it out.

This is why we keep buying Chargers. To be honest- even if they had a ton of issues I would probably still buy them because they are fun. GM really lost the excitement when they killed off Pontiac. They seem to be building ‘non-offensive ‘ cars. Nothing they sell gets me excited enough to spend my $$

[66sprint6]

It's too bad because they have two great cars right now. The Camaro and the Corvette. The Camaro I'd get, but I'd have to get rid of my classic so that's not happening. The 'Vette? That 60,000.00 dream will actually be closer to 90K or more, at least for me. Last time I looked at a Corvette, I ended up with a two year old 911 and never looked back (talk about quality). Anyways, I'm not a Ford fan but when I first saw the new Mustang I was really impressed with the styling. The Challenger looks great, too. They really blew GM out of the water in that regard at a critical time for GM.

[ta6point6]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

The big question still remains.... When is GM going to fully give back all of my tax money they were "loaned"?

I think it is funny people still hold onto the GM took a bailout stuff , what was it 12 billion dollars. The current farmers bailout is up to 28 billion dollars with no chance of every getting paid back to taxpayers. I dont hear these people complaining now It seems like when the shoe is on the other foot and someone else is in the drivers seat it can be overlooked or not mentioned at all.
Once again all manufacturers have problems some huge some minor. I am just amazed after all these years that they can not perfect the oil seal/gasket by now.

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by ta6point6

I think it is funny people still hold onto the GM took a bailout stuff , what was it 12 billion dollars. The current farmers bailout is up to 28 billion dollars with no chance of every getting paid back to taxpayers. I dont hear these people complaining now It seems like when the shoe is on the other foot and someone else is in the drivers seat it can be overlooked or not mentioned at all.
Once again all manufacturers have problems some huge some minor. I am just amazed after all these years that they can not perfect the oil seal/gasket by now.

Did you consider many had bonds and shares invested in GM that was supposed to be protected and they were cheated ?

[242177P]

Originally Posted by ta6point6

It seems like when the shoe is on the other foot and someone else is in the drivers seat it can be overlooked or not mentioned at all.

That's because this thread is about GM, not farmers. Keep your politics out of the regular forums.

[1965gp]

I’m curious - aside from trucks what does the group think about the vehicles GM is putting out as far as desire ability? If you eliminate any quality issues- which cars/crossovers do you like and why? Are they attractive? Comfortable? Fast? A value?

[ta6point6]

Who made it political I am stating facts, did not mention any political party. In my opinion Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks pretty much look the same with Chevy grills barely edging out Dodge and Ford is alright I guess. Toyota large and small are pretty dated looking and live off of reputation only and are way over priced. When it comes to high end interiors Dodge wins hands down.
I wish Chevy would bring back then Avalanche, I love my Avalanche with the fold down mid-gate if I need more cargo room.

[77 Canamman]

Too bad RAM has that absolutely worthless transmission selector dial in their higher end trucks. In a truck, I prefer column shift. Their instrument clusters are extremely cheap looking, and hard to read. The only saving grace there is that huge screen.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

GM paid back the loan strictly according to the Treasury's term, but keep whining about it anyway...

https://www.fool.com/investing/gener...taxpayers.aspx

The U.S. Treasury LOST over $32 BILLION on its sale of GM stock used for collateral. Please explain HOW this was a net gain for taxpayers?

[Scarebird]

How about reading the link first?

[SRR]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

And my '02 Ram-1500 quad cab 2wd with the 4.7 V8 (that we bought used in 2003) was the biggest POS of a truck I've ever owned. Sold it with 143K miles after having to do a top end rebuild on the driver's side cylinder head due to a factory defect in the casting, which caused the valve guides to recess in the head, eventually making the springs "bottom out" and push the cam follower (rocker) right off. When the passenger side head started the same thing, I just replaced the lifter/follower and sold it. Let it be someone else's headache.

Prior to that the differential went up just before the 70K warranty. The dashboard cracked and fell apart into large chunks. The servo's for the ventilation doors in the ductwork under the dash had to be replaced 3 separate times. when replacing the driver's door latch mechanism because the built-in electric door lock servo went up and would no longer allow the door to even be manually locked, I discovered the sheetmetal of the cab on the A-pillar (where the door hinges mount) was so thin that you could flex by barely leaning against the door when it was fully open. The rear 1/4's began rusting out above the wheelwells after 4 years of ownership. I could go on and on.

Meanwhile my '99 GMC with 302K miles still doesn't have a cracked dash and is still running on the original factory engine, trans and differential and the rear 1/4's have just started to rust in the same place as the Dodge within the last 2 years.

I had just the opposite situation with mine. It was very dependable BUT sucked gas like crazy and being a 4dr with that worthless small bed on it plus very uncomfortable seats made for a child I got sick of it. I was amazed I got $4K for it a few years back when I sold it. Some vehicles are just problematic I guess.

[66sprint6]

We lost billions on our supposed "investment" in GM. A lot of it had to do with putting up more than our fair share. We even gave them an incentive recently. Then they closed the Oshawa plant, so there's not a lot of people around here that are happy with GM right now.

[jerry455]

The cost to build cars is higher in Canada versus the US. I don't like that they closed Oshawa but Mary Barra does not care what I think. Oshawa did a great job for a long time. Gm paid back what the Govt. told them. How is it GM's fault the Govt. screwed that up? I am a proud GM employee. Yes I don't agree with some of managements decisions but they have more information to look at than I do. So I have to trust them. My wife is on her second Camaro and loves it. The first was a 2010 Camaro 2LT with a V6 auto trans. It was a great car that we traded in with almost 80,000 trouble free miles. We got almost 32 mpg to and from Mackinac City, approximately 5 hours each way. She traded it in on a certified preowned 2013 Camaro SS. She absolutely loves it. It is a 2SS L99 6.2 V8 auto. No one is going to change their minds. People will still hate GM. That is fine. I won't own a foreign brand. That is your right and that is my right. It is funny how this country is one of the only ones to not support our own industry. The Germans, Japanese and Koreans all protect their auto industry. Their govts have tariffs against our products.

[66sprint6]

I'm not judging. I know that they closed a couple of dyed in the wool GM plants in the US as well. Personally, I knew going in that there would be a loss, because it was tagged for operations. You never get that back. We still have Toyota selling every Rav4 that they can build here and Honda is doing well. Ford and Chrysler still have plants as well.

[1965gp]

I don’t have any desire to own a foreign car- even high end. When my wife needed a new car we looked a BMW’s and Mercedes just didn’t like them.

So- as I posted earlier- quality aside... does anyone like anything GM sells besides trucks, camaro and corvette? I honestly couldn’t tell you what else they sell? None of it seems to interest me

[beertracker]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

I’m curious - aside from trucks what does the group think about the vehicles GM is putting out as far as desire ability? If you eliminate any quality issues- which cars/crossovers do you like and why? Are they attractive? Comfortable? Fast? A value?

Since I am not a fan of crossovers I won't be making any GM purchases. Best of luck with their marketing efforts. GM knows best.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

How about reading the link first?

The Treasury STILL lost $32 BILLION and 150 YEARS of legal precedents were breached to profit the UAW.....