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Old 07-27-2020, 11:55 AM
Doug Doug is offline
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How many Tempest Custom convertibles with 326 and automatic were built in 1964?

Thanks!

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Old 07-27-2020, 02:01 PM
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I tried to copy and paste this. Unfortunately, doesn't show engine/tranny info. Hopefully it's legible:
Model Number Body/Style Number Body Type & Seating Factory Price Shipping Weight Total Production
Tempest Series
20 69 4d Sedan - 6P $2,313 2,970 lbs 19,427
20 27 2d Hardtop - 6P $2,259 2,930 lbs 21,765
20 35 4d Station Wagon - 6P $2,605 3,245 lbs 6,834
Tempest Custom
21 69 4d Sedan - 6P $2,399 2,990 lbs 29,948
21 67 2d Convertible - 5P $2,641 3,075 lbs 7,987
21 27 2d Hardtop - 6P $2,345 2,955 lbs 25,833
21 35 4d Station Wagon - 6P $2,691 3,260 lbs 10,696
Tempest LeMans
22 27 2d Coupe - 5P $2,491 2,975 lbs 31,317
22 37 2d Hardtop - 5P $2,556 2,995 lbs 31,310
22 67 2d Convertible - 5P $2,796 3,125 lbs
17,559

Tempest LeMans with GTO option
22 27 2d Coupe - 5P $2,852 3,106 lbs 7,384
22 37 2d Hardtop - 5P $2,963 3,126 lbs 18,422
22 67 2d Convertible - 5P $3,801 3,360 lbs 6,644

Chassis Data

Model Wheelbase Overall Length Front Tread Rear Tread Tires
Tempest 115 in 203 in 58 in 58 in 6.50 x 14

Also found this on a different site:

Tempest Deluxe
Coupe (6-Cylinder): 12,598
Coupe (8-Cylinder): 13,235
4-Door Sedan (6-Cylinder): 15,851
4-Door Sedan (8-Cylinder): 14,097
Convertible (6-Cylinder): 4,465
Convertible (8-Cylinder): 3,522
4-Door Wagon (6-Cylinder): 4,254
4-Door Wagon (8-Cylinder): 6,442
Number Produced: 74,464

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Old 07-27-2020, 02:30 PM
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Thanks for the info. An acquaintance in another state just traded for a 64 Tempest Custom convertible with 326 and automatic. I don't know any detailed info.

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Old 07-27-2020, 03:46 PM
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Very nice. I am partial to the ‘64 Tempest Custom. I like the trim package and there are fewer of them than GTO’s. Hope your friend doesn’t clone it into a GTO

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Old 07-27-2020, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest1964 View Post
Very nice. I am partial to the ‘64 Tempest Custom. I like the trim package and there are fewer of them than GTO’s. Hope your friend doesn’t clone it into a GTO
Actually, there were a lot more Tempest Customs made than GTO's...

GTO Convertibles - 6644 vs Tempest Custom Convertibles - 7987

GTO Hardtops - 18422 vs Tempest Custom Hardtops - 25833

GT0 Coupes - 7384 vs Tempest Custom Coupes - 0

Total GTO's - 32450 vs Tempest Custom's - 33820

And you still need to add in the 29948 4drs and the 10696 station wagons...

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Old 07-27-2020, 04:39 PM
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Good point Champ. I guess I was just speaking from my own recent experience at Pontiac car shows. I hardly ever see any '64 Tempests or Tempest Customs. Some have been cloned. Just seems like the A-bodies are usually GTO's. I know when I went to Lawrenceburg last year, my car was the only '64 Tempest Custom I saw and I thought that was kinda cool. Same with LeMans, don't see a whole lot of them either.

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Old 07-27-2020, 05:04 PM
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People tend to hold on to the more collectible/valuable cars...not that there was anything wrong with Tempests, but they were more often family cars that got driven into the ground and were ultimately just worn out and sent to the scrapper. There's no way to tell how many are left on the road today, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are more GTOs now.

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Old 07-27-2020, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
There's no way to tell how many are left on the road today, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are more GTOs now.
At least more cars that look like they are GTO's....

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Old 07-27-2020, 07:11 PM
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I don't know, I don't think my Tempest Custom looks like it's been driven into the ground. And it definitely doesn't look like a Goat.

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Old 07-27-2020, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest1964 View Post
I don't know, I don't think my Tempest Custom looks like it's been driven into the ground. And it definitely doesn't look like a Goat.

For some reason, the Tempest lines seem to be missing 2D Coupe (post cars) numbers. It’s hard to believe that they didn’t make any - this seems to be a picture of one.

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Old 07-27-2020, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans View Post
For some reason, the Tempest lines seem to be missing 2D Coupe (post cars) numbers. It’s hard to believe that they didn’t make any - this seems to be a picture of one.
The figures on post #2 have the two lower class Tempest's body style '27' listed as a Hardtop.
But for Tempest LeMans and GTO, '27' denotes Coupe and '37' denotes Hardtop

I suspect something has been reversed or mis-stated with this info. Perhaps the non-Lemans 2-doors were all post cars?

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Old 07-28-2020, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tempest1964 View Post
I don't know, I don't think my Tempest Custom looks like it's been driven into the ground. And it definitely doesn't look like a Goat.
It's a beautiful car and you should be proud to own it.

But the majority of Tempest Customs haven't been preserved like your's - otherwise we'd see more of them.

Some were converted to GTO's, some became parts donors to GTO's and others were left to rust away or were crushed.

I know a blue Tempest and a red LeMans that became donor cars for my '64 GTO convertible. One in Pepin and the other in Fountain City, WI back in the early 90's.

I'm 100% sure that there is nothing left of either one of them at this time.

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Old 07-28-2020, 08:17 AM
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Thanks Champ!

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Old 07-28-2020, 08:45 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Body Style 27 was the 2 dr. Sports Coupe in all 3 Model Series (20 Tempest, 21 Tempest Custom, and 22 Lemans) for '64. This was the so-called "post" coupe.

Body Style 37 was the 2 dr. Hardtop Coupe. In '64, it was ONLY offered in the Model Series 22 Lemans.

The Lemans Hardtop Coupe was NOT in the line-up at the start of '64 Model Year production on Sept. 3, 1963. It was announced IIRC a few weeks after the '64 Models went on sale (first sale date was on or about Oct. 3, 1963) and production of the Hardtop Coupe began some weeks after that. I believe the first '64 Lemans Hardtops had Nov or even Dec Time Built codes. They quickly proved to be more popular vs. the Lemans Sports Coupes (with or without the GTO option). Despite the nominal 3 month head start, the Lemans Hardtops with GTO option far outsold the Sports Coupe counterparts and during the last 8 months of '64 production, the Lemans Hardtops without GTO option significantly outsold their Sports Coupe counterparts.

Another glitch in the data posted by Tempest1964.

The Tempest Custom convertible had a Bench Seat same as the other TC Body Styles, hence it should be shown as a 6 passenger, not 5.

You could get as a Special Equipment order Bucket Seats in the TC Wagon and 4 dr. Sedan. It isn't real clear, but it does not seem you could get them in the TC Convertible or Sports Coupe even as a Special Equipment order. I believe this option would have been very rare in a TC.

The Shipping Wts. shown I believe are for the base (no option) model. In all cases except the GTO, this meant the base 6 cyl engine.

I think somewhere there might be a tally by engine but I believe the MOST rare combinations were the ones with the 4 bbl 326, aka the 326HO.

Just subjective gut feel on my part, but I believe the lowest cost Tempest might have had the highest percentage with no trans option, so base column shifted 3 spd manual. The 4 spd option was likely very rare. The auto trans was likely pretty rare in combo with the 6 cyl but progressing to the 2 bbl 326, would have made the automatic trans option more common.

Moving up to the Tempest Custom likely saw a higher percentage with the optional 2 bbl 326 and a generally higher percentage equipped with automatic. No idea though if the percentage was more than 50%. Again, the 4 spd option would have been rare. My impression is that the TC Convertible had a higher percentage with the automatic than the other TC Body Styles.

Moving up to the Lemans without GTO option would have likely seen a higher percentage of 4 spd builds owing to the sporty nature of the Lemans which came standard with Bucket Seats. I believe they also would have had a higher percentage with automatic. And again, my impression is that the Convertible had the highest percentage of automatics vs. the other Lemans Body Styles.

The GTO option catered to the hot rodder crowd of the day and it seems had a higher percentage with manual transmission, often the 4 spd option. The GTO Convertible likely had the automatic in a higher percentage than did the Sports Coupe or Hardtop Coupe but I'm guessing still a lower percentage than seen in the Lemans Convertible without GTO option.

I would think if 3522 TC Convertibles were equipped with the 326 (2 bbl or 4 bbl), i would guess at least half also got the optional Super Turbine Automatic.

I used to have some pretty good data for the attrition rate for cars of the '60s. No longer know where that data is but I'm thinking it was at least 6% annually. So in 5 years, about 25% had already been scrapped and nearly 50% off the road in 10 years. That means probably fewer than 1000 TC Convertibles with 326 and automatic were still on the road by the end of 1974.

By that time, the '64 GTO was already considered a future collectible so even rough GTOs were being saved. And as The Champ suggested, Tempests, Tempest Customs, and Lemans' were already being parted to save a GTO.

So attrition likely continued so that by 1985 I'd guess fewer than 500 remained.

Many that survived that long may have been well maintained and in pretty good shape. But even nice ones were sometimes grabbed to rebody a GTO.

The Convertibles also suffered because replacing a top on a car worth maybe a few hundred bucks wasn't "worth it". And when they leaked, corrosion was inevitable. Repro parts target the GTO and by extension the Lemans. The TC and Tempest gets comparatively very little love, again making them candidates for parts cars rather than restoration.

I agree with others, you just don't see them around. I would still see decent survivors around in the '90s and I would pore over them because you could usually learn more about factory details from them vs. studying fully restored GTOs

Kudos to the guys that have preserved these non-GTO models. Every one of them is unique in their own way and they are certainly rare enough to be head turners whenever and wherever they appear.

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Old 07-29-2020, 06:34 AM
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John, as usual, thanks for sharing your In depth and well thought out post.

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Old 07-29-2020, 06:18 PM
gtospieg gtospieg is offline
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I'm restoring a 67 Tempest Custom right now. You never see one at a car show or anywhere else for that matter. Unfortunately I may be forced to use a GTO tail panel because no love is shown for the lowly Tempest and therefore no repo tail panel. I'm currently searching for an NOS tail panel. So far no luck.

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