#81  
Old 04-10-2008, 04:43 PM
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Default Points for Posting

Hi Mike
Can you help me get the points that correspond to the number of times that I have posted, I have been "10" for a long time.

Also a few people have asked for "Sticky" status on the 67 GTO thread, I can relate.

The past couple weeks have been a lot of fun and I will continue to post here.

I just figured out a way to break a lot of hearts among the tool-mad shade-tree mechanics in attendance. I am going to donate a few tools at a time to the GM Heritage Center so I can get my basement back.

First heart breaker is the Emmert Pattenmaker's vise which was used extensively in patternmaking in GM engineering shops everywhere.

Google "Emmert Vise" and find out.


Good night and regards
Citydesk175

  #82  
Old 04-10-2008, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1
janderson, was this 'Engine Bridge' on the 2nd floor of the engine Plant #9 or the Assembly Plant (Plant #8)?

I take it Assembly Plant (Plant #8) is where the cars for the Pontiac plant (P) were assembled like N is for Norwood.

If so, then all the engines went thru the Pontiac plant before being disbursed to all the other plants. Were they machined, fitted, and heads etc installed there also?

Okay, I can tell you what I know, anything in particular...ask, I'll try or find out.
The motor bridge was on the second floor of Plant #8 (car assembly), also up on the second floor was the body line, a dash assembly line and large body storage area for when they came across from the Fisher Plant (which was later converted to Fiero) through an overhead tunnel.
Remember, these A-G-B body vehicles were all assembled on the first floor, the plant was multiple levels, not as today where driveline goes in from bottom, etc. The body drop was kind of in the center of the plant, chassis line, bumper build up, core support build up, roll test/alignment, repair areas on first floor, and sheet metal/paint on 3rd floor. Bodies came painted from Fisher, hoods/fenders were painted in Plant 8 and met up with the vehicle on first floor.
All came together on first level, repair area at rear of plant, then exit out the back and drive to the storage lots where the driveaway trucks would load up. In its day, they could roll 78 units an hour off the back, have heard of more. The wheel room was a separate area off to the rear of the plant. The roll test was kind of like an early chassis dyno, would run vehicles up to speed for quailty checking, etc.

And about Plant #9 (engine plant), machined/assembled/and test run on a large rotating platform. Throttles were tied open and a hat was placed over the carb to provide gas for testing. Coolant and exhaust hookups were quick connect also.
Plant #9 did complete machining, even had what was called the "pin house" where piston pins were machined. It was the only climate controlled environment on the plant floor. Bearing caps were first broached, then drilled, machined, sawed apart.

After the V/8 lines were pulled, never was the same (301 doesn't count). 2.5 liter 4 cylinder machining and assembly and the 1.8 (later 2.0) for the Sunbirds, etc. The 1.8/2.0's came from Brazil in a long block form and were trimmed out at Pontiac then shipped.
Most people don't realize that Pontiac built 3 different 2.5 liter engines then, longitudinal for S-10, transverse for 6000 series, and the short transverse for Grand Am.

After the assembly plant closed, and Fisher was converted to Fiero, Plant #8 reopened for a short period and built rear drive Grand Nationals, Regals, Monte's that the bodies were built in Flint and brought in large trailers that were refered to as vans. It was interesting when they built out the GNX's, went over to just listen...

Just FYI, most of my family worked at the Pontiac Plant, father 36 years in car assembly/reliability, myself did 22 years, mostly in Powertrain, about a half dozen in sheetmetal and Foundry (layoff/cutbacks).

Later...

  #83  
Old 04-10-2008, 06:36 PM
mike nixon mike nixon is offline
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cd175, the posts that aren't in the tech sections don't count towards the listed numbers.

i'd love to poke thru that stuff that came out of the engineering depts. it'd make for a good round of the liars club game we used to play with a freind's now deceased father. he'd hold up a tool and we'd have to figure out what it was. it happened every sat at his house.

mike

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  #84  
Old 04-11-2008, 07:51 AM
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Keith Seymore Keith Seymore is offline
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I'm jumping around a bit - back to the GM execs: One other GM executive that was asked to cease and desist was Fred Meissinger. Fred was high up at Chevrolet Central Office and eventually became Plant Manager at the Adrian Fab Plant, retiring from that position.

Fred was the recipient of one of the very first factory Z28 Camaros (normally I would say THE first, but I don't want to fight that battle right now). The car was prepped for road racing/hill climbs and I got to see it in action up in Empire, Michigan back in the day. Fred was very successful with this car, but it was eventually totalled when he let someone else drive and the kid put the car into the haybales.



That's me with the screwdriver in my hand. I am smiling because I am about to put a "super tune up" on that very early crossram equipped Z28 parked behind me.

The leg you see at the left of the photo belongs to my dad; he is about to take the screwdriver away from me before I touch it to that very early crossram equipped Z28 parked behind me...







Note the supreme back-in-the-day tow vehicle: the requisite Kingswood wagon, complete with fake woodgrain on the side. I'm confident it was a GM company vehicle.

The Corvette belonged to Fred's friend Denny Hall. Denny also ended up quite high up at Chevrolet Central Office and was the one that invited Dad to come work for him at CPC Advanced Manufacturing Engineering.

One other bit of trivia is that when Dad went to work at Advanced Manufacturing his office was in the Pontiac Engineering Building on Joslyn; the very same Pontiac Engineering building he used to visit so many years before when he was racing with Royal.

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  #85  
Old 04-11-2008, 07:57 AM
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Living in Southeast Michigan does have some funny advantages.

One of the things that happens is you can run into various big name automotive "celebrities" at random car events. Bob Lutz, although controversial here, is certainly a well known "car guy" and I have seen him at even some of the most modest employee car shows. Tom Stephens, VP of GM Powertrain and also a known "car guy", has a Buick GSX and an early GTO, among other things. Ed Koerner, VP of Engineering (and my boss's boss's boss's boss - whew!) is an NHRA drag racer and was recently featured in Car Craft/Hot Rod.

One of the guys our family knows from way back is Tom Gale. Tom used to wash our cars for us when he was pumping gas at the local gas station as his summer job. He hired in at AC (Sparkplug) in Flint but became disillusioned with designing instrument gage clusters and made the jump to Chrysler. I would say it was a good move, since he rose to the rank of VP of Design and was in charge of the original Chrysler mini van redo, the Dodge Viper, the new Dodge Ram and (I think) the Plymouth Prowler.

Anyway, we were visiting one day with the lady across the street and the conversation (as it somehow often does) turned to cars. She said "hey, I know the guy that has the first Viper. In fact, he has a couple Vipers".

Naturally, at first we were skeptical, as you probably would be. "Naw..... I don't think so..." we said, slowly, as we pondered who it might be.

"No, really" she replied. "Tom Gale".

"Oh" we said, brightly. "Ok then. That would be correct".

Tom has the first production Viper in addition to a later model year car (and a smattering of street rods). Turns out the lady across the street went to High School with Tom and still has dinner with him and his wife on occasion.

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My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #86  
Old 04-11-2008, 10:57 AM
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These stories keep getting better and better.

Thanks to b-man for making this thread a "sticky"!

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  #87  
Old 04-11-2008, 11:32 AM
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citydesk175 citydesk175 is offline
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Default Emmert details

Here are some links to look up an emmert vise

Details about the Emmert

http://www.mprime.com/Emmert/index.htm

How to mount it

http://www.tooltimer.com/emmert.htm

Details on the tucker vise

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...urrency=2&sid=


copy them into your browser address line

enjoy

But
You say what does an Emmert have to do with Pontiac?
PMD Engineering had a wood pattern shop filled with benches with Emmerts attached to them.
when Patternmaking became just another NC process (ducks under the bench here)
the vises went into storage then...

All I know is that for a while GM must have had hundreds stashed somewhere.
They sure make a difference in a wood working shop or other shops that handle large awkward heavy things. Not too big but you never know.

Regards
CD175

  #88  
Old 04-11-2008, 12:25 PM
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Region Warrior Region Warrior is offline
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When you 1st posted about the Emmert, thought i knew what it was.
My grandfather had them on his carpenter work benches.
At least they looked simular to your pic.
He specialized in custom cabinets, dressers, tables, etc.
Cut, plained and lathed his own tuff lumber.
Kept every type of premiem wood you can think of.
A back barn full of huge timbers with the heavy equipement.
The basement(all shelves) and workshop(3 car garage-2 deep) full semi pre cut lumber of the sweetest smells of my childhood.

Oh...sorry, back to the cool stories

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  #89  
Old 04-11-2008, 04:09 PM
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Thank you RW but your story also qualifies as a "cool story" too
It certainly gives me a sense of your origins and what you enjoy

take care and KTF
CD175


Last edited by citydesk175; 04-11-2008 at 04:37 PM.
  #90  
Old 04-11-2008, 05:41 PM
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Well that, and my dad's(57 Super Chief) and older brother's(67-68 FB's/camaro's) street/strip racing before i got mine
Need to get pic's of them.
Either older brother or sister has them from folk's estate.

Speaking of stories...

One of them is of my brothers 67 RAV FB.
Everyone thought it was a Ford tunnel port.
Dad got the engine from somewhere.
Had a geared Holley. Front and rear barrels opened up simultaneously.
4 spd-12 bolt w/4.11's. Went thru alot of m/t's, but they were $50 still warm back then.
Never beat in 2 years of street $ racing.

Nearly killed himself on the highway coming home after work(bar) one night.
Ya, drove to 4-11's(U.S. Steel Gary Works) after a $ race so he would'nt be late.
Fell asleep and hit a guard rail head on.
His head nearly went all the way thru the windshield(20 some stitches), and his arms bent the steering wheel forward with the horn button hitting him square in the chest breaking his rib cage.
He woke up hearing voices saying "he's dead".
Blood had run down over his eyes glueing them shut, so he thought he may of been.
The engine/trans pushed so far back, the shift lever was between the the seats.

After he recovered, bought a 67 camaro w/a 427.
One spring day he came home with a ls6 sticking out of the camaro's trunk from of a 70 chevelle a guy had stolen cause he needed money to pay off gambling depts.
We had it in and runnig later that night.
The next week he went to Florida.
On the way back he got into a highway race against a Charger.
A trooper sitting on the side gave chase.
The Charger slammed on the brakes, then went sideways, cross the grass medium, and off a exit ramp.
My brother, not knowing where he was at, kept go'n.
They had a road block waiting a few miles down the road.
Charged him with doing 145 in 75 limit(think that what it was back in the early 70's)
And evading.
Man was dad hot sending bail $.

While license was suspended, he took some guys out after work(bar) for a ride.
Go'n wot from a stop, when the clutch dropped 3rd, an engine mount broke, allowing the engine up high enough to stick the throttle.
By that time he was go'n into a curve, lost control, thru a phone pole which went into a house wall hitting a fridge.
Think dad was mad on that one?

More later.

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  #91  
Old 04-11-2008, 07:55 PM
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citydesk175 citydesk175 is offline
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Default 9 lives?

Sounds like your brother has used up most of his 9 lives. Amazing that some get trough life and survive hard rock and heavy metal (and music too (picture some amazingly appropriate smiley here))

My respnse story comes from being at Waterford Kettering High School (named after Boss Kett.... GM' Icon) and located within 10 miles of the Pontiac MI Assembly Complex. In 63-65 while I was there an amazing number of 16-20 year olds bought cars they could not afford then and cant afford now either. Yes, during that time. the lot had a bunch of 64 + 65 GTO's that they liked to take on Bender Street, a residential street that was (not any longer!!!!!!!!!) the primary entrance to Kettering High and burn rubber to entertain the Bender residents.

It was not until many years later that I learned that the class of 65 never learned. When I looked at my 25th reunion program, I commented about the very large number of deceased alumni. I was told that many of the deaths occurred at the tenth reunion because my classmates got drunk and went out racing.

Back then and tonight all I can say is: Damn Them!!!!! How dare they do that to their families?

I feel for them and their survivors but WHY did they do it?


more soon when I calm down

Regards
CD175

  #92  
Old 04-12-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citydesk175

My respnse story comes from being at Waterford Kettering High School (named after Boss Kett.... GM' Icon) and located within 10 miles of the Pontiac MI Assembly Complex.
A little off topic, but had to...I went to Kettering also, class of '72...transferred/left MI in '93. Small world...but hello.

Does anyone remember the "overnight" evaluation cars ??? My father when assigned to Reliability in Plant 8 (car assembly) used to bring home a different vehicle every night, there would be a clamp-on speedometer attached to the bottom of the dash.
He had to complete a quality control checksheet, spent quite a few weekend evenings in brand new GTO's, Grand Prix's, etc. (had to sneak them out of course).

  #93  
Old 04-12-2008, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janderson
Does anyone remember the "overnight" evaluation cars ???
Yes!

We got assigned an early "airbag" car (a nasty dark green Impala) for an extended evaluation.

We weren't sure if we were supposed to be flattered for giving us the car or offended that they thought we were likely to crash it...


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'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #94  
Old 04-12-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janderson
Does anyone remember the "overnight" evaluation cars ???
On a more serious note, I am currently a company car driver ("PEP" program) and am assigned a new vehicle to drive every 90 days or so.

K

__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #95  
Old 04-12-2008, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Seymore
On a more serious note, I am currently a company car driver ("PEP" program) and am assigned a new vehicle to drive every 90 days or so.

K
The '75 455 T/A I have, was a PEP car (used to call them courtesy cars) 3months or 3K miles. I picked it up at the Administration Bldg at PMD. Met the wife in it in '76, so kept it...has 35K on it now.

  #96  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:16 PM
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Default PEP Fleet whatever

GreaT to meet another Waterford Kettering Alum (subtly shows the mysterious and secret sign of recognition).

I was thinking today that Kettering might be on topic because for a while the target market for GTO and FB etc might have been Kettering students with jobs who could use the old man's discount. Waterford area had a load of GM employees at the time.

In fact, a considerable number of cars mentioned in this forum may have paraded up and down the aforementioned Bender street in the 60's & 70's. Remember, Somebody had to pay retail first and order the car to be built.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Fleet car story

My co-worker worked at the Warren Tech Center and commuted to Traverse City each weekend to be with his wife and kids.

The building fleet manager found out about this long travel and insisted that my friend drive a fleet car each weekend in order to put miles on the cars for durability and/or sales purposes (remember the 3000 miles?)

One Friday night, my friend got halfway to Traverse City and the engine seized solid.
He knew that his job had just disappeared but he very nervously called the fleet manager and told him the bad news.

The Fleet guy was ecstatic: "We have been waiting for one of ours to do that!! I am sending a flatbed with a replacement car right up. Have dinner on me while you wait"

My friend was relieved to stay employed etc and enjoyed that dinner/

Regards
cd175
WKHS 1965

  #97  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:25 PM
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Another tid-bit that some may remember from the time that Delorean was at Pontiac, there was an award that went to departments in car assembly...small plaque with "ZD" on it which stood for Zero-Defects...from "John Z Delorean".

  #98  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:53 PM
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Couple of items that I got from the Pontiac Foundry when it shut down...a commemorative book with a brief history of the foundry from 1928 - 1987 with employee pictures, etc., and a small disc that the pattern makers in the mold department made so that individuals would have a keepsake from the foundry.
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  #99  
Old 04-12-2008, 09:02 PM
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Keith Seymore Keith Seymore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janderson
Couple of items that I got from the Pontiac Foundry when it shut down...a commemorative book with a brief history of the foundry from 1928 - 1987 with employee pictures, etc., and a small disc that the pattern makers in the mold department made so that individuals would have a keepsake from the foundry.
I predict CityDesk is going to love those...



Speaking of commemorative items, you reminded me of a story my Dad told: one time they were doing a new oil pan and to test the draw of the steel they made a bunch of 1/4 scale versions, probably 100 or so.

He said for the longest period after that any time someone retired they got one of those little oil pans, chromed of course, mounted to a nice plaque as a "going away" present.

K

__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible
'63 Grand Prix
'65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer
'74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/
My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524
"Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926
  #100  
Old 04-12-2008, 09:05 PM
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citydesk175 citydesk175 is offline
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Default Pontiac Foundry

Thanks for coming full circle to the Foundry topic

I will make sure that the pix you posted of the book and disk get noticed by the Heritage Center crowd

Visit GMnext.com to see GM's history as written by employees and public.

Regards
cd175

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