[jhein]

Hi everyone. New person here. I'm looking at a 70 TA and it has this sort of moldy looking discoloration on the headliner around the coat hook. Is that concerning for something else like rust, corrosion etc going on? Thanks.

[grandam1979]

Could the car have been in a barn or garage with windows down got a long time then cleaned up just not done good. I would look under seats and if possible under carpet for any other signs of damage. Looks like heavy dust from sitting to me but can’t be sure from one picture. Good luck getting the car.

[jhein]

I can't be sure of the storage conditions for the entire time since the restoration, but it had a frame off restoration about 6 years ago. For the last 5 years it's been in a climate controlled building. I doubt that it ever got very dusty. Another important bit of information is that it has the same discoloration on the opposite side. I was wondering about condensation/moisture problems or maybe since it's around the hardware for the seat belts and hangers that it could be corroded fasteners or something like that..

This is the other side.

[3tas4me]

Originally Posted by jhein

I can't be sure of the storage conditions for the entire time since the restoration, but it had a frame off restoration about 6 years ago. For the last 5 years it's been in a climate controlled building. I doubt that it ever got very dusty. Another important bit of information is that it has the same discoloration on the opposite side. I was wondering about condensation/moisture problems or maybe since it's around the hardware for the seat belts and hangers that it could be corroded fasteners or something like that..

This is the other side.

That plastic around the shoulder belt mount wasn't dyed either. It is the faded blue/green color that this interior turns to after time.

[4birds]

Pass fender is correct. Check the car over for the really important things like matching # WS block and Muncie trans. Check for correct 7040273 Carb, cast #12 heads, 12 bolt rear, JW wheels, etc. Headliner is no big deal to put a new one in. Shifter can be changed. Intake change is no big deal. Super nice car! Pics attached of curved shifter stick even one from the GM brochure!

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by 4birds

Pass fender is correct. Check the car over for the really important things like matching # WS block and Muncie trans. Check for correct 7040273 Carb, cast #12 heads, 12 bolt rear, JW wheels, etc. Headliner is no big deal to put a new one in. Shifter can be changed. Intake change is no big deal. Super nice car! Pics attached of curved shifter stick even one from the GM brochure!

My 70 T/A had a 7040270 carb on it. It was an A/C car though...

[TA455HO]

If you can look in the trunk with a flashlight you can shine the light up between the inside of the quarter panel and the inner roof structure up a ways and even get a hand a ways up in there to feel for excessive rust on the back side of that area the picture shows. Might have to crawl into the trunk and lay on your back for easiest access.

[jhein]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. It seems like the consensus is that it's an old headliner, maybe even original. That doesn't seem too bad to me. I guess the worst thing about it is that if they left the existing headliner in place when they did the car you don't know what the metal is like behind it. It's been a while since I've been around these cars but I don't recall that being one of the areas more prone to rust, maybe around the rear window but that's usually down at the lower area, is that right??. So if it's just an old headliner that's not a deal breaker.

That's the thing about these cars though, you just don't know much about them. I'm sure some of these restorations are well documented but not the ones I've looked at. This is the third car that I've really considered and they all claim to be "frame off" restorations but none of them had any documentation and none of the restorations were done by the current owner. One even said in the ad that they had photos, receipts, etc and when I talked to the guy they didn't have any documentation at all. I'll call them George Michael restorations, you just gotta have faith. Which is not good because I generally don't have much of that.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by jhein

Thanks everyone for all the replies. It seems like the consensus is that it's an old headliner, maybe even original. That doesn't seem too bad to me. I guess the worst thing about it is that if they left the existing headliner in place when they did the car you don't know what the metal is like behind it. It's been a while since I've been around these cars but I don't recall that being one of the areas more prone to rust, maybe around the rear window but that's usually down at the lower area, is that right??. So if it's just an old headliner that's not a deal breaker.

Since the underside picture you posted shows that whoever restored the car re-created the red oxide e-coat primer appearance, I'll assume this is a Norwood-built car. Therefore when built it got a full body e-coat dip primer coating (Van Nuys cars did not in 1970)... including the underside of the roof. And it would be very unusual to find rust on the inside of the roof on a Norwood car, unless the rest of the car was way too far gone to be even worth restoring.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by keith k

Since the underside picture you posted shows that whoever restored the car re-created the red oxide e-coat primer appearance, I'll assume this is a Norwood-built car. Therefore when built it got a full body e-coat dip primer coating (Van Nuys cars did not in 1970)... including the underside of the roof. And it would be very unusual to find rust on the inside of the roof on a Norwood car, unless the rest of the car was way too far gone to be even worth restoring.

Thanks for that. Is there a way to determine if it's a Norwood car? I have PHS documents for the car but I don't see anything about where it was built.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by jhein

Thanks for that. Is there a way to determine if it's a Norwood car? I have PHS documents for the car but I don't see anything about where it was built.

The VIN will tell you.
228870Nxxxxxx is Norwood
228870Lxxxxxx is Van Nuys

[4birds]

Seems like a very nice restoration. There will always be issues or things left undone. It all comes down to money. If you want a concours correct restoration, you will pay for it. In this case, it will cost you more money to have the issues fixed. If the asking price is close to what you think is fair, you can point out the issues and offer a reduced price to fix them. The intake manifold looks wrong, the shifter stick is wrong, the rear sway bar bushings have slid out of place, headliner, etc. I'd love to own the car. If the price was right.....

[jhein]

Originally Posted by 4birds

Seems like a very nice restoration. There will always be issues or things left undone. It all comes down to money. If you want a concours correct restoration, you will pay for it. In this case, it will cost you more money to have the issues fixed. If the asking price is close to what you think is fair, you can point out the issues and offer a reduced price to fix them. The intake manifold looks wrong, the shifter stick is wrong, the rear sway bar bushings have slid out of place, headliner, etc. I'd love to own the car. If the price was right.....

I didn't notice anything about the intake. What looks wrong?

I read that the short, straight shifter lever was correct for the RA III without the console, that may not be correct.

I did see the say bar bushings. not really worried about that.

Hopefully I can use things to my advantage on the price.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by 4birds

Seems like a very nice restoration. There will always be issues or things left undone. It all comes down to money. If you want a concours correct restoration, you will pay for it. In this case, it will cost you more money to have the issues fixed. If the asking price is close to what you think is fair, you can point out the issues and offer a reduced price to fix them. The intake manifold looks wrong, the shifter stick is wrong, the rear sway bar bushings have slid out of place, headliner, etc. I'd love to own the car. If the price was right.....

The shifter appears to be the correct straight one for a non-console car to me. Is there some detail I'm missing?

[jhein]

More details on the car.

Bock is WS code but not numbers matching. Trans in M20 but not matching number. Heads are #12. Carb, don't know yet, but based on the motor not matching and the intake being a 67-68, I doubt it's matching. Rear end is 12 bolt 3:73. Wheels have no codes stamped on them and look new, so looks like repros.

Other issues, rear sway bar bushings (wrong size, slipped out), Horn, front turn indicator lights, back up lights not working. Vent fan noisy. Trunk looks very nicely restored but no spare tire, jack or liner. Headliner is original/old.

To me it looks like a pretty nice looking restoration (minus headliner) but some non-original parts.

Here's the big one. It has what seems like a valve train noise and front main seal leak. The motor was just rebuilt in June 2020 and hasn't been driven much, which I think is probably true. Seller has his mechanic trying to diagnose the noise and repair the leak, don't know what the problem is with the leak, maybe it needs a sleeve on the crank. As far as I know the crank and rods are original to the block. crank was ground .030 (main and rod) and bore is .060.

So that's the big thing right now is the motor. Just waiting to see what they think it is then decide what to do. I have a receipt/build sheet for the rebuild and I talked to the builder. It has a Melling 068 cam. Original crank and rods. also presumably original pushrods and rockers. It had a valve job with new guides and heads resurfaced.

To me, the entire motor is highly questionable at at this point. Unless they come up with a really good and believable explanation for the noise that is something minor (like an exhaust leak or something), If I were gonna buy it, I'd do so thinking it needs to be gone through completely. That means a really big discount on price or just pass on it.

[racerboy]

Originally Posted by keith k

Since the underside picture you posted shows that whoever restored the car re-created the red oxide e-coat primer appearance, I'll assume this is a Norwood-built car. Therefore when built it got a full body e-coat dip primer coating (Van Nuys cars did not in 1970)... including the underside of the roof. And it would be very unusual to find rust on the inside of the roof on a Norwood car, unless the rest of the car was way too far gone to be even worth restoring.

Keith
I thought the Norwood cars were black underneath, do I have that wrong?

[EDIT: I just did some research of old posts and it looks like the Norwood cars got red oxide and the Van Nuys cars got black - i had it backwards in my head]

Frank

[Formulabruce]

That mold is probably old. Just never addressed. Bet the underside of hood and rods are rusty, but might be fine for a driver if it doesn't smell.

[keith k]

I just dealt with this on a 65 Mustang I'm restoring. I tried to clean it off, and nothing would touch it. And unfortunately it was a white headliner so it REALLY stood out.
I went ahead and replaced the headliner, and the "mold/rust stain" turned out to be bleed through from the trim adhesive that was sprayed to the back of the headliner to hang it in the first place.
I'll bet that's what you've got. If so, your choices are replace the headliner, or dye it.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by keith k

...I went ahead and replaced the headliner, and the "mold/rust stain" turned out to be bleed through from the trim adhesive that was sprayed to the back of the headliner to hang it in the first place.
I'll bet that's what you've got. If so, your choices are replace the headliner, or dye it.

Looking closer at the pictures of the headliner, it seems that this problem exists along the entire perimeter of the liner, it's just worse around the coat hangers. So I think that Keith K is probably right, it's the adhesive.

[OCMDGTO]

Jhein, no problem. Like I said LOTS of Royal GTO Club guys out there that could help you.