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Old 02-02-2020, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 455rebel View Post
Might be dumb ?, but I'm a flat tapett man, never messed with a roller. Does this lower the cost of going to a roller?
Well, I can tell you on the SB Fords it most certainly does, since all the factory parts drop right in without modifications. I had the dog bones and spider along with brand new lifters for $175. A roller stick is $250-$300 and I was done. A retro roller kit with tie bars is upwards of $750 or more.

On other engines that remains to be seen. On the Pontiac, it depends on what brand or style lifter 68hotbird finds that works with the oil band location on a Pontiac, or possibly the lifter bore oiling mod needs to be done to open up the choices. Seems he has the spider and dog bones figured out and those are usually pretty cheap to buy. Pretty slick if it all works out.

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Old 02-02-2020, 02:16 PM
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Neat.

I was wondering why no one was going down this path given all the issues with retrofit roller lifters these days!

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Old 02-02-2020, 03:12 PM
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Yeah. I daily drive. So I'd go for factory parts over third party even if it wasn't cheaper. I know they are engineered for long term durability.

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Old 02-02-2020, 03:29 PM
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Nice job 68HB ! Like others, I was wondering about this concept. My Tag line is appropriate.

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Old 02-02-2020, 04:55 PM
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I have to ask if the factory lifters will hold up to a performance cam and spring pressures?Tom

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Old 02-02-2020, 05:22 PM
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I have to ask if the factory lifters will hold up to a performance cam and spring pressures?Tom
They have worked perfectly in all the instances I've used them. The SB Ford Windsor I gave an example of above worked fine. I've done a few cam/spring swaps in LS engines and simply reused the factory lifters, some with over 100k miles on them, and those would all spin near 7,000 rpm fine. The fox body Mustang guys did cam swaps routinely, and still do using the factory lifters. Tons of examples out there.
I have a brand new 502 GM crate roller engine here that's getting an aftermarket roller stick, and I'm reusing the factory lifters, dog bones and spider....shouldn't be a problem.

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Old 02-02-2020, 06:08 PM
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I wonder if this is what MrPBody was working on back in 2013. He has not posted on any forums for a long time. Hope he well.
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:26 PM
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Jim is doing well in retirement I talk with him frequently and this is a spin off of his research. I have to give him all the credit for the idea. I’m just finessing and continuing to research and update to get the best parts possible. I have about $140 in the lifters and retainer system. The lifters are much lighter than the retrofit lifters which really helps life.

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Old 02-03-2020, 12:32 AM
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What lifters are these?

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Old 02-03-2020, 03:17 AM
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What lifters are these?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68hotbird View Post
spider is small block ford with some tweaking. Dog bones are also sbf with some mods to the bottom to clear the block radius. Lifters are a gm factory roller lifter for a 60 degree v6. There are also some gm v8 lifters that will work. Im working on some other lifters now waiting on them to get here to verify dimensions.
^^^

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Old 02-03-2020, 10:17 AM
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There were several variations here, hence the question.

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Old 02-03-2020, 11:58 AM
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These are sealed power lifters don't remember the number off the top of my head but I will get it. These lifters and the others I am trying to make work have run for many miles with 150# of seat pressure and 400# over the nose. If the second lifter I am working with will work there are thousands of them running in high rpm engines with loads of spring pressures. I am still evaluating the effects of total mass on the lifter load. I know our Pontiac valves and rockers are heavier than some of the comparison parts but there are also engines running these parts with even heavier valves, springs, etc.

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Old 02-03-2020, 12:19 PM
t money t money is offline
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Thanks for posting this research your doing Just when you think everything that can be done to a 50 year old engine. People keep thinking out side the box. As for the heavy valve train we are seeing guys running the LS like bee hive springs and smaller lighter retainers on all our heads cast and aftermarket.

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Old 02-03-2020, 12:34 PM
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Might I also suppose that a roller cam with these factory lifters would also not need so much spring pressure because of the lighter lifters?

Sam

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  #35  
Old 02-03-2020, 12:39 PM
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Yes these lifters are a little lighter so they are easier to control with spring pressures, so that is another advantage with this factory dog bone setup.

I also prefer to set up the springs with either tool steel or titanium retainers to lighten things up a bit.

Every little bit helps when you're doing engines with heavy valves, like Pontiac or BBC stuff.

Just curious what factory roller lifter would work in a Pontiac block without block or lifter modifications.

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Old 02-03-2020, 04:53 PM
70GS455 70GS455 is offline
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They are doing the same thing using factory lifters and spiders from the later 3800 GM V6 into the earlier grand national V6

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Old 02-03-2020, 05:27 PM
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I've used Howard's HYD roller lifters...run em for 5+ years really hard with no problems.

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Old 02-03-2020, 07:20 PM
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I've used Howard's HYD roller lifters...run em for 5+ years really hard with no problems.
Howard's for Pontiac?

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Old 02-03-2020, 08:24 PM
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Here ya go 350 bucks on facebook marketplace.

Includes cam and timing gear set that won't be used.
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  #40  
Old 02-03-2020, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
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Howard's for Pontiac?
Re-boxed Morels...

.

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