[GTOGEORGE]

Back to electric superchargers.



GTO George

[Slick]

Gig's up Mr. Engineer. You have zero credibility. Maybe Mark still trusts in you, but not to many other people do.

You have a pattern of attacking other people, denigrating, demeaning and belittling. That is who you are. Vengeful and viscous whenever questioned. you attack when there is no need whatsoever. I don't always agree with George, he can be a bit obstinate, but he is a Pontiac racer and a human deserving of respect.

You obviously have some knowledge of "boosted systems". Congrats. Trouble is, it's a guessing game where the truth ends and your pathological need to lie begins.

It's already been proved that you lied and continue to lie about your employment position. Exaggerating and embellishing, perhaps to stoke your ego, I really don't know and don't care.

You tell lies in public and in private. For whatever you personally may have accomplished, for whatever your children have done, and for which you are understandably proud, you destroy it all with your behavior.

This has nothing to do with cylinder heads, it has everything to do with you behaving as Bill just accurately described, a cancer.

I just saw this thread about electric supercharging and remembered Mark mentioning it some time back. Thought it might be an interesting read. What did I find? You and George fighting it out. You attacking everyone else. You bringing up the lies you tell (as if sending multiple PMs is not really lying, HAH). You badgering other board members. You bragging about your children (like I said, if your kids really have done as you claim, bravo, you should be proud). You threatening action (like you did awhile back to other members).

Too bad, you have knowledge to contribute to a discussion, and if you could behave in a civil fashion, your 26,000+ posts could be a great asset. But for now, you are an infection. Carry on. I'm done.

[Tom Vaught]

Feel Better Now.

Actually 36,000 posts but 10,000 were lost in a board upgrade years ago.
Just setting the record straight. Something that a LOT of people who post in two forums have trouble doing. Carry On, I like that.

Tom V.

It is always nice when a business like Butler Performance keeps copies of their communications with others. No BS just facts.

[GTOGEORGE]

[QUOTE=Tom Vaught;5966019)

Actually 36,000 posts but 10,000 were lost in a board upgrade years ago.
Just setting the record straight.

Tom V.
[/QUOTE]

Oh you forgot the 20,000 about you talking about yourself!


GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

Ok Thanks George,

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Ok Thanks George,

Tom V.

You’re very welcomed!




GTO George

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

One other point Stan.
You are used to seeing Superflow Data, most likely, read with a Turbine Meter.

Turbine Meters just measure the engine air based on a calibration from Superflow for where the Dyno is installed and then they have 'Correction Sheets' that are supposed to give you a rough airflow number. It is assumed that the Pressure in the cell is based off of a Sea Level Test Pressure of 29.92 Hg or 101.325 kPa and 59 degrees F temperature.
So these correction sheets are supposed to get you in the ball park after the math is done.

The Research Cells are calibrated based on "agreed upon" Scientific Numbers based on CODATA Research.

That number for pressure has changed basically from the old 1980s 101.325 kPa number to the 100 kPa number used in the last few years. Same deal for the Temperature number.

Many years ago it was agreed to that a "pound" would be some percentage of a Kilogram. They had a Master Kilogram (stored in Europe) (that all the other Kilogram measurement standards were based off of). Kind of like having a Master Holley Carb and its calibration. Do the other Dominator Carbs match the Master Dominator Carb's numbers?

So any number that you would want me to give you would not match up with your Superflow numbers because even the numbering system and what the calibration base number reported is would be different vs our Research Cells.

If you want to read more about this here is the link. April 2019 is the change over date for the latest CODATA standards.

https://www.nist.gov/si-redefinition/meet-constants

Tom V.

Tom,
That is one way, but as you say those turbine can / do have problems. Another is to take two other measured quantities like A/F ratio and Fuel lb/hr and calculate Mass Air lb/hr. Now I can calculate BSAC using Mass Air lb/hr just like I calculated BSFC using Fuel lb/hr.

All that said, one problem I have seen is that fuel specific gravity is not entered correctly and that causes all kinds of funny numbers.

Stan

[Tom Vaught]

I have watched testing on Steve Morris "Ultra High Horsepower" dyno several times over the years on his customers boosted engines, as well as testing at McLaren Engines, and Roush Engines. And of course the Hot Rod shops.

One thing that I have noticed is that Steve is often removing his Air Fuel Sensors in the header collectors and cleaning them. That seems to keep his printed data vs the actual air/fuel ratio numbers from the engine accurate.

If a dyno operator does not do that then when you analyse the data your A/F ratio and Fuel lb/hr and calculated Mass Air lb/hr does not show real numbers that the engine combustion process saw.

I have seen a lot of aftermarket dyno data that did not line up with track data.
That is why we inspected a lot of the measurement equipment on the Research cells daily. AND YOU ALWAYS HAD THE SAME DYNO OPERATOR FOR EACH SHIFT FOR THAT GIVEN CELL. The small stuff does make a difference.

That being said I have also seen HP Dyno Operators test engines in Winter conditions with the cell windows open so the cold air went into the engine. The dyno data sometimes showed inflated numbers that you would not see on the track.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

As far as Dyno Testing and credibility, everyone has an opinion.
And as I posted 10,000 opinions mean little vs actual Engineering experience.

I have requested and observed Rear Wheel Dyno Tests at the Allen Park Test labs
(Mostly Rear Wheel Drive & front wheel drive Car and Truck testing.

Then we have the 350 Engine Dyno Cells (in the Ford Dynometer Lab).
They had a few Chassis Dynos but not anywhere like Allen Parks Lab.

I have spoken about the Research Labs Dynos. About 15 Engine Dyno labs but some cells could install two engines in the cells and simply switch a few things to run one engine or the other. These were Climate Controlled.

Then you have the Labeco Dyno Stands for Mileage Accumulation at the Test Tracks.
Robot Drivers drove them.

You have the Chassis Dynos in the Old Carb Lab (now called the Air Flow lab).

The Emissions Test Cells located in the old Emissions Lab.

Like I said thousands of dyno cell tests I have been involved in over the years.

I mentioned the Ford Cells and the Hot Rod vendor cells, I also was Ford's Emissions and F.E. Engineer on site for official Emissions and F.E. testing on their Government Dynos at Ann Arbor Mi for a couple of years.

Yep, your Opinion No Credibility at all.
Some might have another opinion.

Tom V.

Best way to beat a idiot is to shower them with facts.

[Stan Weiss]

Tom,
Which type of chassis dyno did you / they use? Roller or hub. From my very limited experience it looks like for higher HP testing the hub creates less problems.

Stan

[Tom Vaught]

The old old cells used a twin roller system. The Track mileage dynos use the same twin rolls.

The Emissions and Research cells were 48" drum cells.

Hope I can add this. For Parasitic Loss testing we used 67" drum single rolls dynos

Tom V.

[Half-Inch Stud]

warm up an engine,
put a small fuel tank on a weight scale .
run the engine with load for 15 minutes, and measure the gasoline used up to get fuel vs time.

we had carb'd and fuel injected engines.

[Tom Vaught]

I have actually done that very test on my 64 GTO in college.

946 cubic centimeter fuel tank (1 quart of gas), (1/4th of a gallon of gas).

Disconnect the gas line from the fuel pump and plug it.

Hook up the 946 cubic centimeter tank to the fuel pump and start the run on a measured course (mapped out) on the country roads around the university. Run the course and see what your mileage was (assuming city type driving). Mileage was just that. How far did you travel. The load we put on the vehicle was a real world load. Normal 30 mph type speeds.

Emissions and F.E. Tests are basically the same deal. You run a US ftp 75-cvs cycle and read the emissions on two exhaust collection sample bags (a collection bag that is filled for 505 seconds and a second collection bag that is filled for the remainder of the 1372 second emissions cycle. A hot start bag is filled for 505 seconds at the end of the testing.
see link. https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/ftp75.php

Tom V.

ps HIS, you would have to have a pretty accurate "higher value" gram scale to read the weight of your container and the fuel used in the test.

[Anderson Port Development]

Originally Posted by Slick

Gig's up Mr. Engineer. You have zero credibility. Maybe Mark still trusts in you, but not to many other people do.

You have a pattern of attacking other people, denigrating, demeaning and belittling. That is who you are. Vengeful and viscous whenever questioned. you attack when there is no need whatsoever. I don't always agree with George, he can be a bit obstinate, but he is a Pontiac racer and a human deserving of respect.

You obviously have some knowledge of "boosted systems". Congrats. Trouble is, it's a guessing game where the truth ends and your pathological need to lie begins.

It's already been proved that you lied and continue to lie about your employment position. Exaggerating and embellishing, perhaps to stoke your ego, I really don't know and don't care.

You tell lies in public and in private. For whatever you personally may have accomplished, for whatever your children have done, and for which you are understandably proud, you destroy it all with your behavior.

This has nothing to do with cylinder heads, it has everything to do with you behaving as Bill just accurately described, a cancer.

I just saw this thread about electric supercharging and remembered Mark mentioning it some time back. Thought it might be an interesting read. What did I find? You and George fighting it out. You attacking everyone else. You bringing up the lies you tell (as if sending multiple PMs is not really lying, HAH). You badgering other board members. You bragging about your children (like I said, if your kids really have done as you claim, bravo, you should be proud). You threatening action (like you did awhile back to other members).

Too bad, you have knowledge to contribute to a discussion, and if you could behave in a civil fashion, your 26,000+ posts could be a great asset. But for now, you are an infection. Carry on. I'm done.

... PY voted most hated POS Mr. Tom Vaught ... congrats sir, you are a genius lmmfao !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tom Vaught]

Did not see the link to the Poll Voting. "Without a link it never happened".
Just another lie made up by you. You are really good at lying.
Compulsive Lying on everything. Compulsive Lying is a form of Mental Issues.
Well Documented for many years.

You have serious mental issues. Dreams of being a Top Dog in something.
There are people out there who could help you. Professional People who treat this kind of thing.

You have no clue about being "the most hated" (your opinion).

We used to go into the Mental Hospitals and talk to people suffering like you.

Delusional Behavior. It means:

Believing something to be true that is clearly not true. Someone who is not thinking clearly. It is a behavior that describes someone attached to an idea which is obviously false. There is TREATMENT available.
Check yourself into the hospital and in 6 month maybe you will be much better.

Maybe in a few months with the right doctors you can get back to being close to a normal person. Has this behavior been a life long issue?

No matter the right doctors can fix it.

Merry Christmas.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

You probably don't know this but they stopped that Shock Treatment stuff years ago.
Now they treat people like you who are very creative with drugs and other treatments.
Then you could lead a normal life vs blowing off on people, calling them names, not being able to keep a job, blaming someone for your failures constantly and of course the Lies that gush out of your mouth and are posted on the internet.

Get help, you are still young and could have a normal life at some point after a few years of treatment. Just want the best for you in the new year.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Pot calling kettle!



GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

Funny, I could post the same about you.
Except that you do not lie as much as he does.
You tend to exaggerate your accomplishments because no one else does any research on them. Like this one. "Quickest Pontiac powered Pontiac door car in Michigan!"
You posted that for years and did not remove it when Mike Leech ran sevens to you 8 second times.

I know it was just a little white lie, all in fun, right George. Join the Kettle Club George.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

You tend to exaggerate your accomplishments because no one else does any research on them. Like this one. "Quickest Pontiac powered Pontiac door car in Michigan!"
You posted that for years and did not remove it when Mike Leech ran sevens to you 8 second times.

I know it was just a little white lie, all in fun, right George. Join the Kettle Club George.

Tom V.

See "OLD" man you are WRONG again! I took it off as soon as another Michigan Pontiac door car ran quicker then me...........oh yea it WASN'T Mike. Mike didn't run his "weather aided" 7 until before he passed away. It was Roger Ibbotson (mid 7 second door car) he has an Alcohol Blown Pontiac Funny Car now.....so I put it (Quickest Pontiac Powered door car in Michigan) back on because I have a "door car".

GTO George

[Chief of the 60's]

LOL