[gtoric]

BTTT---
The price of everything today is higher than it was in 1990. In economic terms it's known as inflation. The average price of a new car in 1990 was $16,000. Today it's $31,000. The rise in the cost of PHS documentation is less over that time period.

Besides, if you don't already have paperwork for your Pontiac, where else can you get the same information PHS offers, at any price?

Buy or don't, just spare us your bitchin'.

[cuz68]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

PHS stepped up and supplied the requested unhighlighted option sheet and explanation as to why '64 KC & Bal plant built cars aren't decoded correctly. Other things were conveyed, which will be dealt with privately.

Thank you, Jim. Case closed.

Did you get your $65 back?

[turbo69bird]

I see a couple of situations where PHS didn't fulfill the needs of some people, Ive also seen a guy find out his 389 powered 69 bird was a real RAIV convertible because I told him he should PHS the car, just in case it was something.

I think in the cases where the paperwork was useless, it wouldn't have hurt Jim to refund, but at the same time, he probably feels the $65.00 is payment for the time and effort to find the info and mail it, not for the content of the info. So I see both sides.

As for the 64 cars that they cannot decode a disclaimer would be great and probably needed, again though the cost is probably associated with the time it takes to pull and send the records.

All in all I think , in most cases, its a valuable service

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by cuz68

Did you get your $65 back?

Getting money back was never part of the deal. I got what I asked for to clear up any future issues a low-information buyer may have.

[Tom Vaught]

Because there are some decoding "differences" with the PHS documentation in 1964 and John V pretty much has that part of the 64 deal figured out the owner of a 64 KC or BALT GTO really does not need the PHS for those cars (if as 63Banshee says you no longer get the same packet of info (AMA Specifications, etc) that buys received in the past.) Lots of pictures of 64 GTOs on the web these days. Still some prints from the GM photo lab out there on the web too.

So personally I would not be surprised if Jim M said screw it, I do not need the money from the 64 BALT and KC guys and dropped that PHS service. There aren't that many surviving 64 KC and BALT GTOs anyway.

We are really lucky that Jim M tried to save as many of the GM records for the GTOs & F-Birds, as GM was ready to wash their hands of the whole PHS deal, during the downfall & bankruptcy of the company. Believe Jim still has a lot of original record info for the 65-up GTOs & 67-up Birds

Tom Vaught

John V just becomes the "Authority" on the 64 KC GTO and BALT GTO Code/ Numbers game.

[PMD1969]

All hail John V the Grand Poobah !

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by PMD1969

All hail John V the Grand Poobah !

That might be a bit of a stretch

Tom Vaught

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

In another thread somewhere ...
read that GM of Canada documentation service is $120-135 zone
forgot the exact number - but in that range

[Tom Vaught]

If I remember correctly, on my copy of the AMA specs there was a Pontiac Arrowhead logo. Was told Pontiac did not want anything with the Arrowhead distributed without their approval. maybe that is why the AMA stuff is no longer sent out in the PHS packages.

Pure BS on GM's part, IMO.

Tom Vaught

[ron cozzo]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

Who said anything about a refund? Some people need to learn to read.

63Banshee, bravo! This thread for me seemed to only be about PHS misinformation. There's great value in their service. 95% of us are lucky to have them. I've bought PHS for many cars and will continue to as needed. The 64 Chevy plants problem is the issue. In all these years, with all the available information, they've failed to acknowledge their inability to decode them properly, and still send out the trash. I wonder how many vehicles were incorrectly restored due to this. Step up, improve your game PHS.

[John V.]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

If I remember correctly, on my copy of the AMA specs there was a Pontiac Arrowhead logo. Was told Pontiac did not want anything with the Arrowhead distributed without their approval. maybe that is why the AMA stuff is no longer sent out in the PHS packages.

Pure BS on GM's part, IMO.

Tom Vaught

I scanned thru the AMA specs I got from PHS. No Pontiac arrowhead that I saw.

Would be easy to copy the document, don't know what copyright protection it has. The AMA/MVMA dissolved in 1999, but the copyright protection probably survives the organization. Maybe GM still controls the material since the specs may not have been for public consumption, only accessible to the membership?

I'm not sure what the entire purpose of the association was except to lobby on behalf of the collective membership of auto manufacturers. I have no idea why they published these specs. But I definitely believe the '64 specs do have some value and are at least interesting to review.

I have no idea why PHS discontinued including them in the packet. Were they told to desist because of copyright laws or did Jim M. decide that it wasn't worth the postage to include the copy in the packet?

[Held for Ransom]

Again, I contend it was Pontiac Motor Division who supplied the info to PHS. When it went out, so did the info.

[63Banshee]

Guys, this thread has lived its life. May it rest in peace.