[dld]

I looked at 1965 power team chart. It stated with w/ 3.90 or 4.33 that it required h/d fan. With ether engine choice. This seems to indicate that with other gear ratios this would be a option or part of a option package I.E. a/c. or a option of its own.

[bigpop]

The HD radiator is a 4 row,and TT is correct.But,in 65,the tri-power rads had the upper hose on the passenger side,4 barrel on the driver's side.

I was under the impression that the standard fan on GTO(basic one) was all black,with five blades.(Interestingly,that blade was on 67 RA cars.) and 18" The HD fan-19-1/2" diameter and seven blades, Larry B.

[dld]

The rad is a h/d rad it cam on the 3/2 cars standard. But was option on 4v cars. The bent tip fan was standard on GTO option.

[dld]

fans

[Pontirag]

Mr Seymore, is that spacer correct?

As for the general discussion on notched fans in PS cars. I have only seen notched fans in PS cars, Quite a few over 30 years. and many more fans with out notches in non-PS cars. Parts, service and repair manuals also support this. I sold several notched fans for about 200 each

[dld]

you may have to resize to view

[dld]

Note fans on both eagines alum bent tip -GTO . Lemans blk. steel

[Carl A]

dld-- the picture is this your car? what line is that with the hump in it beside the front carb?

[dld]

I think the p/s part is secondary to the point that the notched fan is a larger dia. In that pontiac put the notch in it as a fix. The fan was used in h/d applcation. The part that the car had p/s was coincidental.

[dld]

not my car.....there is plenty wrong with that car though.

[Pontirag]

See post 17 and then post 22. PS cars came with notched fans . Who gives a hoot about diameter especially if the fan is wrong anyway. It was hardly a "fix". Correct me if I'm wrong but this car does not have PS.

[dld]

With a due respect I feel correct in my post. But could be wrong on some point and i'm here to learn and share info. for the sake of promoting the hobby.

With that said look at post 31 of Mr.Seymore's car . His car is a org. Note the single fan belt (no P/S). only cars with a/c had the same belt run the p/s and alt.

standard H/D radiator w/notch fan . I'm sure his car came with 3.90 or 4.33 gears to have this combo. Or was ordered with h/d fan

My point is that the fan is a h/Duty fan not just for cars with p/s
The cars that you have seen had another option that would dictate the car to have the fan not just p/s

[Pontirag]

Every body's pounding thier chest and insisting that thier car is origional. I'm not disputing that because the record is already clear on that. All i'm saying is notched fans go on PS cars, Feel free to disagree but it does not alter the facts.

Just trying to set the record streight for those who want to restore or establish the authenticity of thier car. Not saying any car is not origional. Just want to help people make thier car origional. And I am no athority. I'm not relinquishing control to anybody else either

whats really funny is you can get people on this thread to insist that a one off or early car can have a unique combination of parts and while it does not represent the majority it still COULD be correct. Meanwhile another thread will discuss a totaly different part under exactly the same conditions and that part is incorrect under any circumstances. sp niether I or anybody else has the power to dictate to others what is correct, authentic or origional. Rather that fight it out I suggest we refer to the service , repair and or parts manuals. As in government we must be carefull whom we empower to dictate and mandate to us.

who knows. So I ask that those of us who have these unique combinations of parts and are desparate to get affirmation from the heard, sit this out and appriciate that the question and answer appeals to the majority and the mainstream. Not everybody is going to restore thier car to a standard based on a single example contrary to all the supporting documentation and huge numbers of other cars that comform to the norm. Often vehicles will be found with strange combinations of parts. what never seems to be considered is the possibility that at some point in 35-45 years those parts might have been changed.This possibility deserves equal consideration. and some of us might have to accept that our cars are not origional even if they have an assorment of parts that were correct on similar cars. Correct and origional are different.

There is a difference between what is correct and what is possible. In judging it is the responsibility of the owner to prove...in some cases against all suporting documentation that his unique combination is correct. Does not mean its wrong it means prove it.

So let me say statistically speaking a very very large majority of the cars that had this notched fan also have PS. The pontiac service and parts manual support this supposition. If I were to restor my car correctly and wanted to suport my restoration choice with proper, authentic accepted documentation; my car if it had the notched fan would also have the power steering. Sorry, I did not make these rules. way it is.

[dld]

Pontirag, Ok you made your sell and i made mine.

I agree with you on most parts but not sure on fan use.



bigpop see chart out of 1965 CHASSIS MANUAL for use of radiator

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

Mr Seymore, is that spacer correct?

Not sure. It's not something Dad and I talked about specifically, but I would suspect it is original.

Subject change:

I'm not clear on my part in the apparent "downward spiral" of this thread, but let me clarify a couple thoughts on my car.

Anything related to cosmetics (ie, paint, pinstripe, fit, finish, carpet, seats, IP, bumper bolts, hose routings, electrical, window rubber, trim, inspection stamps, firewall markings etc) is absolutely "virgin"; that is, it is in the same condition as when we received it on September 12, 1964. Since the car has been in my (or my family's) direct care since that time I can assure the reader that most of those parts have not been touched since. As such, it should be pretty representative of an early September built Pontiac plant car, which is why I make the car available for observation and to answer specific questions.

Anything related to "go fast" (ie, engine, trans, driveline, front and rear suspension) is entirely suspect. By being a race car (only) I know many of those items have been changed, specifically heads ('67 heads installed, original heads stored in basement), intake and carbs ('66 tripower and carbs installed, original in basement), headers (original ex manifolds in basement), cam, taller valve covers, etc. Even though they have been removed those parts are still available for checking date codes, etc. The trans and shifter should probably be viewed with some caution, since there is a story there. It is the original "born with" date coded/EUN block in the car.

I always keep the above in mind when using the car as a reference point.

Fan, fan clutch and spacer certainly fall into a gray area. I don't have any leftover/removed parts; additionally by being pretty "tuned in" to Dad's thought processes I don't believe they have been changed, FWIW.

Hope that helps -

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by dld

With a due respect I feel correct in my post. But could be wrong on some point and i'm here to learn and share info. for the sake of promoting the hobby.

With that said look at post 31 of Mr.Seymore's car . His car is a org. Note the single fan belt (no P/S). only cars with a/c had the same belt run the p/s and alt.

standard H/D radiator w/notch fan . I'm sure his car came with 3.90 or 4.33 gears to have this combo. Or was ordered with h/d fan

My point is that the fan is a h/Duty fan not just for cars with p/s
The cars that you have seen had another option that would dictate the car to have the fan not just p/s

Yes, my car was ordered with the 3.90 gears (and metallic brakes).

K

[bigpop]

dld,my post,if not clear,related HD radiators to 3x2 and TT radiators if you reread it.

I asked Scott Tiemann years ago,(13 or so) about the notched fan,and he said it was
to clear the P/S units hub.That's good enough for me.

I have a real 65 3x2 4 speed GTO drop top.It had the HD,and seven blade non-nothed fan.No power options.The diameter is 19-1/2".I just measured it,it is off the car.It has an H and FRONT on the carrier.It is the original fan.It has a bent like tip(at a sort of radius).

I never claim to know al about these cars.At 62,I saw these cars first hand,and rode in my buddies to places I refuse to divulge.LOL But,I do remember some things clearly.Others things I rely on the guys here who's opinion and experience I respect.
I have vbeen wrong over the years here,and admit it when I am.In this instance,I feel confident in what I posted.

In regard to the black fan,Jim Mattison told me this,as I was considering buying his 67 RA HT. I may have goofed that up,as he said the fan was a black,fan w/ four or five blades.I may have assumed it was the GTO's standard cheapo one,but he probably was refering that the car used the Lemans ? fan.I saw one on eBay I was going to buy,as,at the time,the 67 RA had the wrong fan on it.I trust Jim 's knowledge as an authority.

But,I have seen weird stuff on original low mileage GTO's.A member here has a 4400 mile original 65 HT all Black.It was built within two weeks of my car at Kansas City.That car has several things unusual,that mke me wonder.e.g. the radiator P/N is on the top(by the Harrison name),not on the upper drivers side like Keith's.The MC to tee is routed differently.Several more things,but....who do you trust?? I am triying to learn and help out with whatever I may know.nothing more,nothing less. Larry B.

[dld]

Originally Posted by bigpop

The HD radiator is a 4 row,and TT is correct.But,in 65,the tri-power rads had the upper hose on the passenger side,4 barrel on the driver's side.

I was under the impression that the standard fan on GTO(basic one) was all black,with five blades.(Interestingly,that blade was on 67 RA cars.) and 18" The HD fan-19-1/2" diameter and seven blades, Larry B.

bigpop,
I posted a chart of radiator use please look at the use of the TT radiator. I think you will concur that the TT radiator was used with both engines IF equipped with h/d cooling .

Thanks for your example of the fan on your car.
the info. that I have obtained is from Pontiac literature by Pontiac or a collection of many cars that I have seen.

I have owned a body shop for 35 years and have worked on many of these cars over the years. Now I'm restoring a 65 post car. I'm trying to put it back correct, as Built.

I also I'm 60 years old and share the same passion for cars. I have owned a new 67 HO car and many other Pontiac's sense including a new 70 R/A iv car.

Although I may be new to this Forum I'm not new at cars. Don

[dld]

this is from Zazarine and Roberts Restoration Guide. This should clear it all ,fans radiator ect.

[60sstuff]

I stumbled onto this 65 Post Coupe Lemans today that is still with the Original family and is a daily driver. It is Cameo Ivory with Turquoise interior, 326 with column automatic and factory air w/power steering built here in Fremont, Ca. The gentleman was kind enough to let me take some pics.
Note - The fan Caution Decal and Nice original hood pad!