[Dick Boneske]

I did mount the inner to the outer fender and used masking tape on the front of the door and rear edge of the fender--worked great! I remembered how doing it with the inner already mounted was a hassle getting the wheelwell lip over the inner.

Adjusting the gap, however, reminded me of how tolerances on these cars was not anywhere near what's being built today. I split the difference in gaps by adjusting the door forward a little. As you can see from the pictures, the fender is as far back as it can go--limited by the pillar sheet metal, but the gap just below the outside mirror is a little wide. I hope the passenger side lines up at least as well as this one did--hopefully better.

It was upsetting to find a crack in the sheet metal on the passenger side fender on the top inner corner (the corner that is adjacent to the hood and window moulding). Didn't notice this until after I sprayed rustproofing inside the fender and mounted the antenna base. I'm hoping the body shop can fix this next week so I can get this tiger on the road!!!

[ron cozzo]

Dick, I had the same fit problem at the top of the drivers side fender. We test fit everything in primer. We did some hammer work on that corner of the fender to work it forward, also put some thin shims under the pillar cover to get the height good. Passenger side fender was OK. Haven't reassembled yet since paint.

[RA1John]

Same problem on dad's '64 Cp. Guessing the only way to get consistent gaps on these cars is to add some mig/tig to the hem edge.

[Dick Boneske]

As we all know, the dimensional tolerance on body panels in the '60's was very loose on all cars, not just Pontiacs. I remember being able to put an index finger between the fender and door on some early cars. Today, we tend to "over-restore" our old cars. No one ever talked about fixing these gaps beyond what adjustments would allow back in the day. It's tempting to do so, but I'm going to live with what GM stamped.

[Dick Boneske]

Discovered a new problem yesterday--related to changing to a wood steering wheel and refinishing the steering column and steering shaft. After fixing the interior lights on the main light switch, I tested the horn contact and found it was not making. Removed the horn button and switch under it and determined that there was continuity between the horn contact and the horn relay under the hood.

I noticed the horn contact that fits inside the steering wheel hub did not protrude far enough to contact the horn switch. I could push the steering wheel forward against the spring behind the steering wheel and make the horn work, which made me suspect the steering column position.

Examined the spline going into the steering box coupling and found it was not as far forward as it was in the former manual steering box. I loosened the coupling bolt and had my wife push the steering wheel forward while I tightened the coupling bolt. I then re-positioned the clamp just below the fixed portion of the steering column to keep the shaft from moving backward again.

Reassembled and it works fine, including the turn signal cancel cam. I was beginning to think the wood wheel needed different horn parts, but confirmed they are the same as the standard wheel from the horn contact forward.

Pictures below show detail of the parts in question. I moved the column about 1/4" forward to correct the problem.

Now, I'm going to put rubber rocker cover gaskets in place of the cork ones I used. There is always a little residual oil on the gasket surface nearest the spark plugs. Cork does not seal as well as rubber gaskets. Should have known better!!

[Dick Boneske]

Went to the body shop that painted my car (Grenadier Red Code "V" Dupont Urethane base coat with no clear coat) today to pick up the fender that they've had for THREE weeks. It was sitting on a sawhorse outside the paint booth with the area that was repaired painted--a red that does not match the rest of the fender. The body shop manager said the painter tried "all morning" to match the color but gave up because he had "other work to do."

I talked with the body shop manager and he again told me the story of how they switched to exclusively water based coatings and were having a tough time matching old colors. This shop restores many Corvettes and old Chevs-Chevelles. As you know, Grenadier Red is the same color many GM cars were painted in the '60's. You'd think it would be easy today to go to a paint supplier and get the right color. I guess not.

He asked me if I had any paint from when they did the body (2007) or if the invoice had any notification of color code. I reminded him it was code "V" Grenadier Red--stock color for a '64 GTO. They did not give me any left-over paint. Now, the body shop manager says he will try to buy a pint of Urethane from a local shop.

Why is a body shop manager having a difficult time getting paint for my GTO when any one of us could buy it from an automotive paint supplier. What in God's name do they give these people for going "green" and using water based products??? I bought a small bottle of Grenadier Red Lacquer for touch-up last year locally and it matches very closely.

Sorry for the rant, but why is this so difficult???

[rexus31]

Even if you did have left over paint, it probably wouldn't match the rest if the car. There are other factors including, but not limited to, using a different gun, different psi, weather conditions, etc. that can slightly change the shade. Your best bet is going to be taking the car there so they can blend in the door and/or hood. But-matching panels is very difficult and more times than not, unsuccessful.

[dld]

As I have posted before. These old Acrylic Lacquer colors are not formulated in newer paint systems including base/clear two stage or even most single stage 2k systems. Your shop most likely got a close to formula from a newer car or tinted up a formula from a color chart. PPG use;s a color tech line for help and will give a close to match from a used formula. My car is code R (65). I bought a pint of code R acrylic lacquer as a guide to the correct match. Called PPG to get there close to match and went on to tint that color to the code R.

Most large shops use a mixing system that is installed buy there paint distributor. These systems mix one type product. There is a big push to water base now. It looks to be the future in paint.

To help yourself try to get with the shop and find out what type and brand of product they used at that time and try to get one on one with the painter that did your car. He will be your best help. All the systems that were used in 2007 are still being made.

Solid colors don't blend near as well as metallic colors. They are not as transparent. They will leave a blend line. You can add some clear to color to help this but it really needs to be close.

My next thought is a Spectrophotomete http://www.ppg.com/coatings/commerci...User_Guide.pdf

These can help BUT are not perfect. You will still need some human interaction.

[Dick Boneske]

I'm certainly no expert on painting, but remember the many times in the past body repairs and paint matching were done on my cars with nearly perfect results. These were metallic, solid, acrylic lacquer, and enamel.

One example is my '68 Firebird that was either the same red or very close to my '64 GTO Code "V". It was an enamel repaint done by the last owner in California painted over the original Verdoro Green, brown, white, and finally red. I had the hood and one front fender painted in 1988 by a local body shop with color match so close you could not detect the difference. Later, he fixed some door dings which required blending and there were no detectable blend lines.

Why can't that be done today?

Yesterday, the body shop manager asked me for info on the paint they used in 2007. I reminded him it was DuPont Urethane base coat--no clear coat. They're going to need enough to do the trunk lid, also, after I can drive the car to the shop.

[rexus31]

Proper blends require blending of adjoining panels. If you attempt to blend the fender off the car, you will be disappointed with the color match when you bolt it on.

[Lemans64]

Sorry to hear of your issue's Dick. That is something I have dreaded with my car, paint is custom colour and I do have the code, but with time and some sun things fade and codes don't match anymore so blending is required and I fear they will never match correctly if redone, well to my standards anyhow. Bodyshops have been made to go with new paint systems, well in Canada anyhow, waterborn paint is the new thing and most suppliers have a real hard time getting the old paint or have to jump through hoops to get it. Hopefully u will get it though, but it may take some time.

[Dick Boneske]

The shop has had my fender since Oct. 15. They painted it after about two weeks with poor color match--I suspect with waterborne paint. They then ordered the correct color, code V, from DuPont--base coat Urethane, the paint used when the body was painted four years ago.

It's interesting that the shop's paint supplier rep is training the painter this week and last week. I suspect the dilema created by my fender has something to do with that. This shop does a lot of old cars and I've heard waterborne paints do not work well when matching old colors. This doesn't make sense to me, but my experience and others tells me it may be true.

They promised the fender will be done tomorrow. I have my fingers crossed!!

[Dick Boneske]

Fender is back and installed!! Color match is what I'd call perfect, which tells me I'm either lucky or those that said painting a panel off the car would not match were wrong.

On another posting, I've explained the problem on both driver's and passenger's side with rocker panel-to-fender alignment that will leave a gap when the rocker moulding is installed. This alignment issue is the same on most of the GTO's I've seen--not factory original, but those that have been restored.

Another question is about the holes in the inner fender on the passenger side. The two lower ones (for the vacuum can), are to be filled with plastic plugs intended for that size hole. The other two, further up, are larger. What are these for and is there a "correct" plug for them?

[rexus31]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

Fender is back and installed!! Color match is what I'd call perfect, which tells me I'm either lucky or those that said painting a panel off the car would not match were wrong.

On another posting, I've explained the problem on both driver's and passenger's side with rocker panel-to-fender alignment that will leave a gap when the rocker moulding is installed. This alignment issue is the same on most of the GTO's I've seen--not factory original, but those that have been restored.

Another question is about the holes in the inner fender on the passenger side. The two lower ones (for the vacuum can), are to be filled with plastic plugs intended for that size hole. The other two, further up, are larger. What are these for and is there a "correct" plug for them?

You got lucky, although from the pic it does appear to be slightly off. Can't tell for sure until the car is in natural light.

[goatman65]

I think the lower 2 holes are 'bolt holes' for a splash shield.

The larger upper holes get black plastic plugs.

[Old Goat 67]

Two lower holes are for fender brace.

My 67 passenger side shown, extra rubber pieces are for AC baffles, 64 should be the same I think.

Charles

[64woodwheel]

The two upper holes are for battery tray mounting if it were a 6 cylinder. Plugs go there on V8's.

[valkyrie9901]

X2.....................JB.

[chrisp]

Lower ones splash pan , uppers get plastic caps .

[Dick Boneske]

Thanks, I had brain freeze. I have the two fender shields cleaned and painted-ready to go on.

I had a real scare when aligning the passenger side fender!! Everything was adjusted as well as we could get it--gaps, door opening clearance, etc. I needed to tweak the bottom front corner of the door in less than 1/8", so I loosened the hinge Phillips head screws and moved the door inward as needed. Slammed the door and it wouldn't open!! Panic!!!

I jacked under the frame directly below the door latch. After the gap opened from the body flex, I could get the door open to the first latch position, but no further. Got inside the car with a pry bar to move the door up and down with no success. Kicked the inside of the door from the inside with no success. Finally, I inserted the key and locked and unlocked the door many times, sometimes very quickly while trying to open it each time. Finally, it opened one more increment--like another latch position. Kept playing with the key and suddenly the door opened!!

Problem was not related to adjusting the hinges at all. There was a piece of hard nylon about 1/2" long by 1/4" wide lying in the slot that the door latch mechanism uses when the latch moves. Removed the plastic and all is OK.

What a relief!! I was ready to attack the inner door panel and drill out the latch bolts from the inside, which, I guess, is the only way to get into a car if the door hangs up like mine did.