[rohrt]

I was watching this old pontiac add on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mToh6KSDKxY

What are the rims on the car. Is that just Ralley I rims?

When the person got in the car it looks like it has a bar on the door for power windows. Did they a power window option back then?

[chrisp]

Looks like option 482-Custom wheel Disc option [ also known as spinners] . Yes power windows were optional .

[rohrt]

OK so that would answer my next question about if the spinners were a factory option.

Can someone enlighten me on the blacked out grills? From what I have read the GTO option was just an engine option. That doesn't seem to be the case. Are the trim pices just made up of the hood scoops, grill, fender badges and GTO emblems on the 1/4 all part of the GTO option? Any other trim pieces or differences?

[rohrt]

I found this:
http://www.badgoat.net/CRH_homepage/...er_Hubcaps.htm

I thought the spinners were just a center cap on a ralley I wheel. Looks like they are just a hub cap.

Still want some info on the trim and black grills.

[Old Man Taylor]

The GTO was an option on top of the LeMans, which also had a blacked out grille. That leaves the hood scoops, fender badges, quarter panel emblems and the emblem on the dash and the grille.

[Dick Boneske]

The body was identical to the LeMans except for the hood scoops, lack of the rear quarter panel "gills" in front of the rear wheels, and the "GTO" emblems.

The grilles, taillights, and all other trim was not different from the LeMans.

There were three hub cap options---poverty or "dog dish" caps, full wheel covers, and the "spinner" full wheel covers. Rally I wheels were not an option until '65.

[rohrt]

Thanks OMT and Dick,



Looks Wikapedia has it wrong again.

1964The first Pontiac GTO was an option package for the Pontiac Tempest, available with the two-door coupe, hardtop coupe, and convertible body styles. Despite rumors, Pontiac never built a GTO station wagon on its assembly lines.[2] The US$ 296, package included a 389 cu in (6.4 L) V8 rated at 325 bhp (242 kW) at 4800 rpm) with a single Carter AFB four-barrel carburetor and dual exhaust, chromed valve covers and air cleaner, 7 blade clutch fan, a floor-shifted three-speed manual transmission with Hurst shifter, stiffer springs, larger diameter front sway bar, wider wheels with 7.50 × 14 redline tires, hood scoops, and GTO badges. Optional equipment included a four-speed manual, Super Turbine 300 two-speed automatic transmission, a more powerful "Tri-Power" carburation rated at 348 bhp (260 kW), metallic drum brake linings,[3] limited slip differential, heavy-duty cooling, ride and handling package, and the usual array of power and convenience accessories. With every available option, the GTO cost about US$ 4,500 and weighed around 3,500 lb (1,600 kg). A tachometer was optional, and was placed in the far right dial on the dash.[4]

Most contemporary road tests used the more powerful Tri-Power engine and four-speed. Car Life clocked a GTO so equipped at 0–60 miles per hour (0–97 km/h) in 6.6 seconds[citation needed], through the standing quarter mile in 14.8 seconds with a quarter mile trap speed of 99 mph (159 km/h). Like most testers, they criticized the slow steering, particularly without power steering, and inadequate drum brakes, which were identical to those of the normal Tempest. Car and Driver incited controversy when it printed that a GTO that had supposedly been tuned with the "Bobcat" kit offered by Ace Wilson's Royal Pontiac of Royal Oak, Michigan, was clocked at a quarter mile time of 12.8 seconds and a trap speed of 112 mph (180 km/h) on racing slicks. Later reports strongly suggest that the Car and Driver GTOs were equipped with a 421 cu in (6.9 L) engine that was optional in full-sized Pontiacs. Since the two engines were difficult to distinguish externally, the subterfuge was not immediately obvious. In Jim Wanger's "Glory Days" he admitted after three decades of denial that the red drag strip GTO had its engine swapped to a 421 Bobcat unit. Since the car was damaged during the testing, and Wangers did not want anyone looking under the hood, he used the blue road course GTO to flat tow the red GTO 1500 miles back to Detroit. Frank Bridge's sales forecast proved inaccurate: the GTO package had sold 10,000 units before the beginning of the 1964 calendar year, and total sales were 32,450.

[Dick Boneske]

From what I read, Wikapedia has it exactly right. The GTO body and the LeMans body were the same except the GTO had hood scoops and GTO badges and did not have the trim pieces ("gills") just ahead of the rear wheels.

There were many differences under the hood and with the rest of the chassis.

[rohrt]

Its that relationship between the tempest and LeMans that I don't get. I'm not sure If I should veiw them like two different cars or different trim packages. I guess I have the same confusion with the Catalina and Bonniville.

The first line says "1964The first Pontiac GTO was an option package for the Pontiac Tempest" I thought the GTO option was a LeMans option only not a tempest option.

[Old Man Taylor]

The GTO option was an option to the LeMans, not the Tempest.

[rexus31]

And the LeMans an option on the Tempest?

[b-man]

Originally Posted by rexus31

And the LeMans an option on the Tempest?

Yes, all of the different models were based on the Tempest line, the Pontiac compact car of the time.

[Dick Boneske]

rohrt,

The Tempest line in '64 included the Tempest Custom, LeMans, and GTO. Many body parts were interchangeable between these Tempests. A four door model was available in the Tempest line. LeMans and GTO's were two doors--sedan, hardtop, and convertible.

The big Pontiac line in '64 included the Catalina, Star Chief, Bonneville, and Grand Prix. The Catalina and Grand Prix shared the same wheelbase and most body parts. The Star Chief and Bonneville had a longer wheelbase. There was a Ventura and a 2+2 option on the Catalina.

This would all make more sense if you could page through a 1964 Pontiac sales brochure.

[rohrt]

Thank you for that education.

Next questions.
The blacked out GTO grills, where they just tempest/leMans grills that are painted or are they physically different?

I saw a pic of b-mans white tempest custome and the bench seats had the pontiac arrow head on them, both front and back. They looked like the original seats as they were all tore up. I have not seen the arrow heads on any other pics that I have seen of bench seat 64s? What gives?

[b-man]

My Tempest is a standard low-line model, not a Custom.

Pretty sure the arrowhead emblems were used only on the standard Tempest seats.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Dick Boneske

There were three hub cap options---poverty or "dog dish" caps, full wheel covers, and the "spinner" full wheel covers. Rally I wheels were not an option until '65.

You forgot about the wire wheel cover option. They looked very similar to these on this Oldsmobile Cutlass, but would have had a "Pontiac" center:

[BOB VIDAN]

The wheel cover Champ put a picture of is the same except the spinner. The Pontiac spinner is exactly the same as this Rambler piece except the decal.

[Old Man Taylor]

The grilles are identical physically. You can paint a Tempest grille to make it a LeMans/GTO grille. Also, a matter of terminology: The Tempest and the LeMans were separate models. The GTO is an option on top of the LeMans model. That's how DeLorean got the GTO past to corporate big wigs. They checked the details of each model, not the options.

[BOB VIDAN]

Actually OMT, the Tempest vs GTO/Lemans grilles are physically different in the support structure on the backside. I always thought they were the same except paint until I learned otherwise at the nationals last summer in Portland.

[64woodwheel]

Originally Posted by BOB VIDAN

Actually OMT, the Tempest vs GTO/Lemans grilles are physically different in the support structure on the backside. I always thought they were the same except paint until I learned otherwise at the nationals last summer in Portland.

Please enlighten us, Bob. Can you describe the difference or post some pictures?