[Held for Ransom]

Other than the Pontiac invoicing (not a build sheet) provided by PHS and the window sticker business (probably a PHS offshoot), most Pontiac stuff was provided by PMD. Now that they are no more, they must think there's not enough incentive for GM to promote themselves. Too bad Jim never stepped up to the plate.

[Jerry H.]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

The p-o-p tells me the car is a GTO and I have THE engine it was built with. So the car came with whitewall tires. Oh great, money well spent?

I've never ordered PHS on a car I had the POP on. The POP has the engine unit # imprinted on it; and on most PHS docs, the engine unit # is not included. POP has engine code, exterior color and interior trim. That's everything you get with PHS except for the particular options it came with. Just wondering what exactly you expected??

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

The codes from PHS are wrong for the Kansas City Built cars.

John V has mentioned this several times in posts. I knew this many years ago.

That being said, their is still some value with a PHS document, I suppose.
Course you can't just give the PHS document to the next owner as everyone says "order a new one,
as your copy may have been tampered with."

What a sweet deal that is for PHS.

$65.00 I guess I will keep my copy of the info I received from the "Pontiac Lady" (years ago), that had the right code info for my KC cars.

Tom Vaught

Same with the Baltimore cars, which I think you already know. Others might not. My car is a Baltimore Plant car, so the PHS "decoding" of the broadcast sheet is worthless. Perhaps even a detriment because I'll have to explain the mistakes to a potential buyer in the future that might have a crazy idea in their head that "PHS is the God of Pontiac document suppliers."

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

I've never ordered PHS on a car I had the POP on. The POP has the engine unit # imprinted on it; and on most PHS docs, the engine unit # is not included. POP has engine code, exterior color and interior trim. That's everything you get with PHS except for the particular options it came with. Just wondering what exactly you expected??

I know all this. Took me 25 years to get around to ordering docs. Only did because of a conversation at POCI Dayton proved to me that some people, way more than I ever thought possible, don't understand the POP. I might be selling this car soon and figured I'd go ahead and "pop" for PHS just so I didn't have to explain to anyone why I don't have the all mighty PHS for the car...

[27jalopy]

I appreciated PHS sending me an "emergency" fax on the day they were moving to a different office, it really helped me out. Their phone message said they were closed that day, but might possibly fit in an order during the move. It was very helpful!!

That being said...

I remember getting PHS on a car somewhere around 15 years ago. The package included a nice generic factory photo of a '65 GTO hardtop, and lots of other paperwork (though mostly useless). The last two PHS documents I've recieved cost WAY more money, came with almost unreadable broadcast sheets, and no more picture or fluff paperwork. A little annoying!

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by 27jalopy

I appreciated PHS sending me an "emergency" fax on the day they were moving to a different office, it really helped me out. Their phone message said they were closed that day, but might possibly fit in an order during the move. It was very helpful!!

That being said...

I remember getting PHS on a car somewhere around 15 years ago. The package included a nice generic factory photo of a '65 GTO hardtop, and lots of other paperwork (though mostly useless). The last two PHS documents I've recieved cost WAY more money, came with almost unreadable broadcast sheets, and no more picture or fluff paperwork. A little annoying!

Does anyone have pics (photos) they can post of what they are receiving? I have only ordered one packet but that was in 1992. Invaluable info IMHO. It was 22 years ago but I think the price was $25?

If anyone has pics please post them.

[indetrucks]

I was sorely disappointed when I got the PHS on my 67 GTO as well.
Some random photocopied sheets with highlighted options.


SWEET! haha

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by Andre

AI'm not sure how PHS could buy a car out from someone if you sent in the VIN.

Perhaps something like this...

PHS gets request/VIN for '69 GTO, sees it's a RAIV judge.

Does quick search of local craigslist/classifieds/etc. from area where request came from for '69 GTO and finds $2000 stripped down project car with the requested VIN or other identifying attributes.

Contacts owner directly or through intermediary and buys car from seller before sending PHS back to requestor.


I'm not saying this happens or making any accusations, just thinking about how something like this could go down.



I am very disappointed in PHS price increases, but I've chosen to vote with my wallet. I'd love to get the PHS on a couple of the cars I have just out of curiosity, but I know what they are for the most part and documentation isn't worth $65 or whatever it's up to now.

If I do go to sell one of the cars without PHS someday, I'll likely just tell buyers to run the PHS themselves and if it isn't what I am selling it as (GTO, etc) I'll refund the cost of PHS....besides, some aren't going to believe my copy of PHS anyway, so why waste the $$?

[7072]

Originally Posted by 63Banshee

Same with the Baltimore cars, which I think you already know. Others might not. My car is a Baltimore Plant car, so the PHS "decoding" of the broadcast sheet is worthless. Perhaps even a detriment because I'll have to explain the mistakes to a potential buyer in the future that might have a crazy idea in their head that "PHS is the God of Pontiac document suppliers."

Well, I think I just learned something ???? Are you saying if you have a car built at the Baltimore plant the PHS is no good? I didn't know that. Why ??

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by 7072

Well, I think I just learned something ???? Are you saying if you have a car built at the Baltimore plant the PHS is no good? I didn't know that. Why ??

The option sheet PHS highlights for you isn't 100% correct. K and B plants coded differently due to them being Chevy plants. If you have PHS docs for a car from one of these plants I suggest you post here for decode help.

[dld]

The Baltimore phs thing is a little exaggerated in that they don't know all the codes. my Baltimore car they hit all the options correct. you can decode most of the broadcast sheet from the fisher side of plant with chevelle codes . p/w ,4sp, console, back up lamp. ect. of course it would not have drive train info. or brakes ect .

my .02 is phs is good info if you have nothing and good to enhance your other info you gather. THERE IS SOME YOU HAVE TO DO a little research boys. won't hurt you.

65.00 bucks for info on a car that you are going to spend thousands on restoring or buying i'll pay.

There is plenty of room to cheat i.m.o. on both sides if your that kind of guy. how much to have it changed ????

[John V.]

I agree that the PHS doc is worth it.

But their inability to decode the '64 KC & Balt docs is not exaggerated.

Can you identify the numeric codes they correctly deciphered for your GTO?

I have seen a bunch of '64 KC & Balt PHS docs, never saw one they came even close to decoding correctly.

[dld]

J V phs did on my car and as said. with the fisher broadcast sheet you can compare it to chevelle codes as i have done to decode it.

[johnta1]

Disclaimer, 1st:
I haven't bought a PHS since price increase or even an older car that had only the billing history.

I think the main priority of PHS is the billing history card that you get.

The 'decoding' is a freebie they do.

I would say it's up to the buyer to determine the correct decoding?



Without the billing card (main purpose of PHS), one wouldn't have anything to even be able to decode anything.
(without having the buildsheet from the car)

[John V.]

Originally Posted by dld

my Baltimore car they hit all the options correct.

Don, this is the statement I am questioning, "they" in the context of your post is PHS.

What options did "they hit" correctly?

You mention a Fisher broadcast sheet, are you referring to the 5 Group Trim Manifest or another document? Most guys don't have the 5 Group Trim Manifest for their car and since the 5 Group codes aren't regurgitated on the Balt Data Plate, a Pontiac hobbyist would be lost using the PHS decode for the KC or Balt Chevy form Passenger Car Shipping Order they receive from PHS.

My earliest efforts included obtaining the '64 Chevy/Chevelle codes, but it is impossible to decode a KC or Balt Tempest PHS doc very well with just the Chevelle codes.

Suggesting that PHS even comes close with their decode is misleading IMO.

Please identify the codes "they hit" correctly.

[dld]

yes John (they) or PHS shaded out the options on the car on order sheet. I used the broadcast 5 group card with the chevelle letter codes to translate.Broadcast card.

You may be very well correct using the billing card. I will asked my baltimore plant guys and see if i can get a answer as to how or what system they used. Had a local guy that i sold a truck to tell me about when he worked there that he worked in the punch card office . Problem is these guys are getting old and they have been retired 20 or so years. There at one time were over 7000 people at that plant. There are lots of guy around here that worked there. Always running into them.

[The Boss]

Without PHS every 69 Firebird would be a Trans Am - just like EVERY 69 Camaro is an SS or A Z-28.

$65 is a cheap (read lousy) dinner out without a movie. In the Pontiac world it's proof you have a real car.

[63Banshee]

And yet the Camaro is worth more...

Besides, the POP proves more (by weight of importance) than PHS.

[The Boss]

Who do I get a copy of my POP from? And how much does that cost?

[63Banshee]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Who do I get a copy of my POP from? And how much does that cost?

Exactly why it's worth more to a buyer and seller than PHS!!! Still, those damn Chevys are worth more...