[Pepi]

I sent it to Kellogg Automotive in AZ. www.kelloggautomotive.com

It takes 3-7 days, and the 488296 casting numbers they told me normally runs $112.50 plus shipping back to you. The web site says they can leave the patina, or original paint.
And it when I emailed them first bout it, they told me it comes with a lifetime warranty. So I thought well worth the money to keep original part, date coded.

Now I just have to pick up some paint to touch it up and install.

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Pepi

I sent it to Kellogg Automotive in AZ. www.kelloggautomotive.com

It takes 3-7 days, and the 488296 casting numbers they told me normally runs $112.50 plus shipping back to you. The web site says they can leave the patina, or original paint.
And it when I emailed them first bout it, they told me it comes with a lifetime warranty. So I thought well worth the money to keep original part, date coded.

Now I just have to pick up some paint to touch it up and install.

Thanks, they were on my radar. I was talking to Old Goat 67 about them earlier on the phone. I was thinking about buying tools and parts from them to build a few pumps with some old cores.

[Pepi]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

Thanks, they were on my radar. I was talking to Old Goat 67 about them earlier on the phone. I was thinking about buying tools and parts from them to build a few pumps with some old cores.

Karl,

Yes, I saw where they sold tools for DIY. This pump was so rusted, and I don't have access to a bead blaster at the moment and trying to get the old cast impeller off, so I figured I would let them do it all, and like I said Lifetime warranty. Sold.

If I was in your situation with a few of them to do, I would buy tools and parts.

[67droptop]

Ok after reading all of this I couldn't take it any more. I got the GTO out of storage and removed the pump and with the divider plate on the pump with the used gasket still compressed I have a gap of .125 The pump is an Edelbrock 8856. As you can see it only has 6 vanes. A lot of the pictures I've reviewed in this thread has 8 vanes. So should I just close the gap and use my pump or purchase another???

Thanks, Paul

[GT182]

Paul, is it your original divider plate and is it in good shape? And is the pump still good... no leaks?

If you don't mind messing up an original divider plate, go ahead and close the gap. Tho you will might not be able to reuse it with a new waterpump afterwards.

As for divider plates, there are new ones for sale on ebay. Links are in the thread a couple of pages back.

Charles and I talked to Karl earlier and from what I heard the aluminum pump he bought was spot on for having a correct impeller. Costs more than a Cardone pump, but I say peace of mind is worth it. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=749259 I'm seriously thinking of getting one for a spare. Now if you have an original style waterpump but he wrong impeller, I'd think about having it rebuilt by Kellogg Automotive with a correctly curved impeller. And that's my other choice... to have a good pump with the wrong impeller rebuilt.

All of this is just my . It's a choice you have to make as these 2 options are more expensive than finding a correct Cardone pump.... if we can ever get the part number for it. And hopefully we can someday soon.

[67droptop]

Originally Posted by GT182

Paul, is it your original divider plate and is it in good shape? And is the pump still good... no leaks?

If you don't mind messing up an original divider plate, go ahead and close the gap. Tho you will might not be able to reuse it with a new waterpump afterwards.

As for divider plates, there are new ones for sale on ebay. Links are in the thread a couple of pages back.

Charles and I talked to Karl earlier and from what I heard the aluminum pump he bought was spot on for having a correct impeller. Costs more than a Cardone pump, but I say peace of mind is worth it. http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=749259 I'm seriously thinking of getting one for a spare. Now if you have an original style waterpump but he wrong impeller, I'd think about having it rebuilt by Kellogg Automotive with a correctly curved impeller. And that's my other choice... to have a good pump with the wrong impeller rebuilt.

All of this is just my . It's a choice you have to make as these 2 options are more expensive than finding a correct Cardone pump.... if we can ever get the part number for it. And hopefully we can someday soon.

Good Morning Gary,

Pump only has 145 miles on it and the divider plate was purchased new with the new pump. What are your thoughts on the 6 vanes vs 8 vanes? Any advantages to having the 8? I'm a little concern if I will see much of an improvement with closing the gap. It seems the guys with the most overheating had a gap of .250 or more. My is .125 with the gasket. I'll close the gap and lets see what I get. Gary, without the gasket I should close the gap until the plate is all most touching the impeller....right?

Thanks, Paul

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by Pepi

Will do Charles, waiting for some warmer weather (we just got a little snow yesterday again), and for my foot to heal before I can walk out to the garage and replace the pump. But I will definitely reply back on how it works, and if anyone needs anymore pictures or information.

Thank you Charles for all you have been trying to do with Cardone to try and get them to supply us good pumps. I have been following this thread for quite awhile, and you just don't quit and give up. Huge thanks!!

Pepi

OK, Thanks for that, but the real pleasure in all of this is seeing someone who took the info and used it to the proper conclusion and got the car back to the original configuration which did NOT require all the expensive mods to make it run like it was back then!

Charles

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by 67droptop

Ok after reading all of this I couldn't take it any more. I got the GTO out of storage and removed the pump and with the divider plate on the pump with the used gasket still compressed I have a gap of .125 The pump is an Edelbrock 8856. As you can see it only has 6 vanes. A lot of the pictures I've reviewed in this thread has 8 vanes. So should I just close the gap and use my pump or purchase another???

Thanks, Paul

Paul,
My thoughts on that question would be to say that if you have to bang the plate to meet the vanes (yours look to have been cut down), then you are reducing the pump chamber volume in effect reducing the volume of water the pump can move around.
Less volume, less flow. Thats not how it was engineered to begin with.

Charles

[67droptop]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Paul,
My thoughts on that question would be to say that if you have to bang the plate to meet the vanes (yours look to have been cut down), then you are reducing the pump chamber volume in effect reducing the volume of water the pump can move around.
Less volume, less flow. Thats not how it was engineered to begin with.

Charles

Hello Charles,

So I should look for a pump with the taller vanes and 8 of them? The vanes on my Edelbrock start at 3/8" and curve up to 1/2" in the center. Overall the impeller measures 4 1/2 inches.

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by 67droptop

Hello Charles,

So I should look for a pump with the taller vanes and 8 of them? The vanes on my Edelbrock start at 3/8" and curve up to 1/2" in the center. Overall the impeller measures 4 1/2 inches.

This is what I found to put in my 67. I believe I remember those vanes being closer to 3/4" high. Shaft probably 9/16" diameter for reference. Fit the plate like they were married. Cools like it did when new.

[67droptop]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

This is what I found to put in my 67. I believe I remember those vanes being closer to 3/4" high. Shaft probably 9/16" diameter for reference. Fit the plate like they were married. Cools like it did when new.

Thanks Charles.....Looks like I'm going shopping today!

[Hooch]

I saw this today. Has anyone used the new water pump from Ames? I'm sure PY will offer soon if they haven't yet? It looks like its $49.00.

LATE 1969-1977 GTO/LEMANS/TEMPEST CAST IRON WATER PUMP WITH
CAST IMPELLER

*NOW AVAILABLE AT AMES PERFORMANCE* THE HARD TO FIND NEW WATER PUMPS

WITH CAST IMPELLERS AS ORIGINAL. THESE ARE ALL NEW CASTING AND PARTS.

THEY ARE THE 11 BOLT WATER PUMPS CORRECT FOR 1969-1979. THESE ARE NOT CORRECT

FOR EARLY 1969 WITH THE 4" HUB(SHORT). FITS ALL 69-77 PONTIAC V8 EXCEPT 301.

COMES WITH 2 GASKETS.

[67droptop]

Ok just got back from NAPA. The guy tells me the difference between the 6 vane and 8 vane is....the 8 vane is for air conditioned cars. It appeared in the catalog that the vanes on the 8 are more aggressive/taller. He ordered me one from another location and I will have it by 2pm today. He also warned me that sometimes the item ordered does not match the catalog item!!!! I guess I'll find out at 2pm! LOL

[Pepi]

Originally Posted by 67droptop

Ok just got back from NAPA. The guy tells me the difference between the 6 vane and 8 vane is....the 8 vane is for air conditioned cars. It appeared in the catalog that the vanes on the 8 are more aggressive/taller. He ordered me one from another location and I will have it by 2pm today. He also warned me that sometimes the item ordered does not match the catalog item!!!! I guess I'll find out at 2pm! LOL

That is interesting about the 6 and 8 vanes. Good luck with getting what you want.

[GT182]

Paul, I'd get the gap as close as 1/16" if you can. Now when you look at the pump coming in, make sure it has the curved vanes that match the contour of the divider plate. If not, don't buy it. Ask them if they can get 3 or 4 you can look at. Don't worry about asking for so many as they can send them back to their supplier. I've done that here at the parts store I hang out at. Remember... the customer is always right. At least 99% of the time. LOL

As for the number of vanes. I've not seen a pump off an a/c car, but I'd say 6 is ok as Charles has with his a/c GTO and cools as it should. If anyone is using an 8 vane cast impeller I'd like to hear if it cools better..... or not.

[67droptop]

Originally Posted by GT182

Paul, I'd get the gap as close as 1/16" if you can. Now when you look at the pump coming in, make sure it has the curved vanes that match the contour of the divider plate. If not, don't buy it. Ask them if they can get 3 or 4 you can look at. Don't worry about asking for so many as they can send them back to their supplier. I've done that here at the parts store I hang out at. Remember... the customer is always right. At least 99% of the time. LOL

As for the number of vanes. I've not seen a pump off an a/c car, but I'd say 6 is ok as Charles has with his a/c GTO and cools as it should. If anyone is using an 8 vane cast impeller I'd like to hear if it cools better..... or not.

Gary, is the 1/16 without the gasket?

[GT182]

Originally Posted by 67droptop

Gary, is the 1/16 without the gasket?

That's with the gasket. When you tighten the bolts up it will crush the gasket. So maybe an 1/8th of an inch will do ok. Just get it as close as you can so the impeller doesn't hit the divider plate and you'll be all set.

[67droptop]

Originally Posted by GT182

That's with the gasket. When you tighten the bolts up it will crush the gasket. So maybe an 1/8th of an inch will do ok. Just get it as close as you can so the impeller doesn't hit the divider plate and you'll be all set.

Got it and thanks!

[67droptop]

Got the new pump from NAPA.....8 vanes and more aggressive but they do not go all the way to the outside of the impeller and the gap is the same as the edelbrock pump.....125 ths. With all this being said I cannot use a standard pump with my March Track Style Drive System. The front of the edelbrock pump has machine work done around some of the bolt holes. The new stock pump is thicker in some areas and this will cause a major issue with the spacers for mounting the March system. So I guess I'll close the gap on the Edelbrock pump and dividver plate and put it back on hoping for the best! Here are a couple of pictures!

[george kujanski]

Have no clue as to why the rebuilder cuts down the vane diameter...perhaps it's a vane design from some other application?

George