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#1
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Questions about 65 options
Not being nearly as versed on 65, I have a couple questions as what triggers what options. I am speaking of unmolested car, right off the showroom floor. No day 2 mods.
If you raised the hood and saw a notched fan, would that indicate a 3:90 rear end? If yes, would that also indicate aluminum drums? Would that also indicate, possibly, an M21 transmission, or can that be ordered either way: M20 or M21? THANKS!!!!! "Bill"! |
#2
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Quote:
On a 1965 Tempest Series car (GTO) in this case. The large diameter HD notched fan indicates a high performance 3.90 rear. This notched fan also came on all Tempest Series cars with air condition. Above applications comes with or without Power Steering and the large (4 core) radiator.
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1) 65 GTO Survivor. 43,440 Original Miles. “Factory” Mayfair Maize Paint with Black Pinstripe, Black Cordova Top, Black Interior, OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Purchased from the Lady that bought it new. Baltimore Built (11A). 2) 66 GTO Survivor. “Factory” Cameo Ivory Paint with Red Pinstripe, Red Interior. OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Tri-Power (OEM Vacuum Linkage), Automatic "YR" code (1759 Produced). Fremont Built (01B), with the Rare 614 Option. |
#3
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Notched fans came on A/C cars, so not necessarily. 3:90= M-21 As far as the drums, looking at the order sheet it appears to be a stand alone option, but the metallic brake linings look to be mandatory.
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"I know just enough to keep me here, but not enough to get me out" |
#4
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In 64 & 65 you could get the 3.90 with M20 or M21
M21 was default for 3.90 M20 was special equipment and will show a different code on the BHC The only difference between the W code M20 and the Spec Eqpt M20 was the speedo gear. I only know of about three 65 3.90 cars documented that way. Could get 3.90 with Auto , also. The fan has been covered pretty well already. So if you open the hoods on Day 1 cars , and saw the notched fan , but not a tall radiator (trough in lower support) and no metal fan shroud You would be looking at a 3.90 car - or a factory mistake. The notched blade fan is the larger fan normally only used on AC cars. |
#5
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The glossary terms in Cardo's chart show for 3.90
@ = Code 534 HD Fan = Big blade notched fan $ = Code 591 Speedo Adapter - this is an error , it was only used on Automatics 3x2 brought Code 432 HD Radiator with it Another error is showing 2 codes for M21 One of those codes is actually for the M20 Spec Eqpt with different speedo gear Can't access my files for a while now. But my WS M20 3.90 BHC is on this site. And Seymores WS M21 3.90 actual Buildsheet is on this site. Our cars have different transmission codes Will try to find those documents on here and put them in this thread - if I can. Tarheel Tempest car is also WS M20 3.90 , and I think one other member also. All 3 named cars are from PMD Michigan Plant |
The Following User Says Thank You to Baron Von Zeppelin For This Useful Post: | ||
#6
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I tangled the terms on the 4 speed terms I used.
We know the Code 77W was the standard M20 up to 3.55 gears According to John V. - the Code 779 M20 with special speedo gear was the default with 3.90 And Code 778 was the Spec Eqpt M21 Close Ratio with 3.90 Majority of 65 3.90 cars were ordered with the M21 Seymore's car is #778 with M21 Mine is #779 with M20 Tarheels is #779 with M20 The powetrain charts that PHS sends out were done themselves Some errors on the 65 chart they made. None of the 3 cars listed above have the #591 Speedo Adapter. All 3 have Code #534 HD Fan = $3.12 option Actually they all 3 show #535 because all 3 also had Option 531 SoftRay ALL as well The 4th car is a WS M20 3.55 for cross reference All 4 are Black. Seymore's 65 M21 3.90 Tarheel's 65 M20 3.90 My 65 M20 3.90 Random 65 M20 3.55 |
The Following User Says Thank You to Baron Von Zeppelin For This Useful Post: | ||
#7
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Notice that Seymore's car also carries Code 592 for the Spec Eqpt Trans M21
592 = Special Order on his Buildsheet 534 = Special Blade Fan on his Buildsheet |
The Following User Says Thank You to Baron Von Zeppelin For This Useful Post: | ||
#8
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I don't think it will answer your questions specifically, but there's an accessories catalog on the Old Car Manual Project website that you might find useful. https://oldcarbrochures.org/United%2...iac/index.html
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#9
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I see my work here is done...
__________________
'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
The Following User Says Thank You to Keith Seymore For This Useful Post: | ||
#10
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Sometimes I don't know what I would do without a copy of your 65 Buildsheet , Keith.
lol All the M21 cars I have seen documents on have the 592 Spec Eqpt / Special Order code. fwiw Also worth noting that all 3 of the 3.90 cars shown , were Manual Steering. So the fan quiz should have a definitive answer. It was for 3.90 |
#11
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The 4th car shown - WS M20 3.55 - Did have Pwr Steering
But no special fan All 4 are Black , and from PMD Michigan plant. Apples to Apples |
#12
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Sooo, here we go.
"Bill"! |
The Following User Says Thank You to bill ryder For This Useful Post: | ||
#13
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Bill - you may already know this but one can use the build sheet as a decoder.
For example, the "69" portion of option "692" refers to the box number. Within that box are additional descriptions, like "1" = T Track "2" = Special Order Axle "3" = both of the above "4" = Economy axle etc So 692 = special order axle, 694 = economy axle, or in some of the boxes the individual numbers add to create further combinations. Astute observers can even use this technique to decode the punches on the billing history card. On mine "Built less 504" means that the order specified the rally cluster (box 50 option 4) but the car was built without it for some unknown reason. It was also done with enough lead time to affect the printed document. Usually the changes occur late in the process and the adjustments are made in pencil on the billing history card. K
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'63 LeMans Convertible '63 Grand Prix '65 GTO - original, unrestored, Dad was original owner, 5000 original mile Royal Pontiac factory racer '74 Chevelle - original owner, 9.85 @ 136 mph besthttp://www.superchevy.com/features/s...hevy-chevelle/ My Pontiac Story: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=560524 "Intro from an old Assembly Plant Guy":http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=342926 |
#14
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Keith ?? Liquid lunch today ? lol
692 = metallic brakes 703 = 701 = Posi 702 = Spec Ord Axle 71P = 3.90 ratio They don't have a break down for box 69 - it must have been the only 69x option or sumpn |
#15
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Obviously a very well executed forgery
Nobody orders wire wheel discs on a WS M21 3.90 Convertible ! Damn ! What were the colors on this GTO ? Iris ? |
#16
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Might have dreamed it
But seems like somebody posted a 65 BHC for a 71 S car = 4.33 Have not seen another - if I really saw that one. Have seen some 66's with S code 4.33 Two XS cars , and One WS (convertible) |
#17
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Colors are L, L, 214. Lots of teal. 21000 car not licensed since 1969.
"Bill"! |
#18
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Quote:
Trying to check all the boxes. "Bill"! |
#19
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Oh Gosh
Love the Teal / Turquoise colors , with Teal interior too , sweeeeet . Is it Code 5 Teal Top ? 65 had some great color combos - hard to pick a favorite. Code L Dark probably my first choice on a 65 convertible. d a m n |
#20
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d a m n
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