#181  
Old 02-04-2020, 11:14 AM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
... It's to bad the auto dealer put on a new (wrong) Magnaflow header-back dual exhaust ...
If I understood you correct, you're also going to have to chase down a set of exhaust manifolds?

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #182  
Old 02-04-2020, 11:25 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
If I understood you correct, you're also going to have to chase down a set of exhaust manifolds?
My bad...I should have mentioned that the header-back system was grafted unto the original 2 1/4", or replacement stock-style headpipes from the original RA manifolds.

Dennis
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  #183  
Old 02-25-2020, 02:41 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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I forgot to mention that it appears to have the correct Formula-size sway bars...1-1/8" front and 5/8" rear instead of the bigger TA bars...shucks! Please ignore the blue overspray...that will be taken care of in the spring.

Dennis
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  #184  
Old 02-26-2020, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
I forgot to mention that it appears to have the correct Formula-size sway bars...1-1/8" front and 5/8" rear instead of the bigger TA bars...shucks! Please ignore the blue overspray...that will be taken care of in the spring.

Dennis
Formula bars work quite well. The biggest thing is having them vs no rear bar, small front bar Firebird & Esprit set up. I would guess few people owning these cars (now) push them to the ragged edge cornering where you would notice TA bars being better than Formula. They are though.

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  #185  
Old 02-26-2020, 02:40 PM
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Formulajones Formulajones is offline
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I've swapped the bigger TA bar on the back of my 70 Formula years ago. It definitely made a noticeable difference in stiffness I've since went back to the smaller Formula bar just because.

  #186  
Old 02-26-2020, 04:40 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Since this Formula was originally equipped with the std. F70-14 (BW) Firestones on 14x7 steel wheels, the std. bars are more than enough since the tires are most likely the limiting factor for handling. If it had the optional 15" JW's/ F60-15 Polyglas's, the bigger bars would be more effective. I wish I still had my '70 Coronado Gold Formula 400 that was a factory equipped 15x7 JW Rally II's and F60-15 Polyglas tires (my very first car I bought when I was 18). I never did look at the sizes of the bars on that car as I had it less than a year when I straight traded for my '70 Judge. I did keep the JW's and swapped them onto the Judge.

Dennis

  #187  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:05 PM
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Norwood Norwood is offline
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My 7C TA was one of the ones that came with a 5/8 bar.

  #188  
Old 02-27-2020, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norwood View Post
My 7C TA was one of the ones that came with a 5/8 bar.
I recently went through the notes/pics I've taken over the years on original '70 T/As, and about 60% had the 5/8" rear bar. That's based on a little over 150 cars..., so only ~5% of production. But I'd bet it's pretty representative.

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70 Trans Am RA III / T400 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
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  #189  
Old 04-24-2020, 03:53 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Default 1970 Formula Update

The weather is getting a little warmer, so possible to work on the Formula again, which has been in the 'cold' garage for the last couple months. We bought some Pypes polished stainless steel 2.5" exhaust tips to see if they would work and how they would look on the Magnaflow tailpipes that have just the turn-down dumps for exits. Well, they exit further back and lower than the proper 2nd gen Firebird tailpipes, but this was an experiment to see how the tips need to be modified to look more factory correct in their positioning. Our goal is to work with what we have since the system is new. We will have to cut the tailpipe dumps a couple/few inches to raise the tips and then shorten the tip a few inches and add the correct steeper bevel cut to mimic the '70 tip angle. It will look more factory correct and won't be perfect, but we'll feel better than leaving it the way it is now. The TH400 will be removed and inspected in the next few weeks as well. We also found 14x7 CL steel wheels (thanks Steve Johns!) to restore and put back on the car with dog dishes.

Dennis
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  #190  
Old 04-24-2020, 05:32 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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congrats on the wheel find!
it took me ages to score a set - did you concern yourself with the minutia of dates on the wheels?

I only ask because it seems any car you fix up, gets a level of detail that few go to;
And I love watching your threads.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #191  
Old 04-26-2020, 01:28 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Jonny - No, we're not that concerned for this car. Steve had a set and wanted to know if we'd be interested...so we bought them. Here are pictures of the wheels that Steve sent. They are off a desert SW car, so not rusty and still has the original Castilian Bronze paint. I believe the date code 1 - 16 - 0 (K-1-0) is Jan. 16, 1970??? I can't retain all the details anymore...getting old.

Dennis
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  #192  
Old 04-26-2020, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Jonny - No, we're not that concerned for this car. Steve had a set and wanted to know if we'd be interested...so we bought them. Here are pictures of the wheels that Steve sent. They are off a desert SW car, so not rusty and still has the original Castilian Bronze paint. I believe the date code 1 - 16 - 0 (K-1-0) is Jan. 16, 1970??? I can't retain all the details anymore...getting old.

Dennis
IIRC, your remembrance is correct. Plus the 'K' stands for Kelsey-Hayes Wheel Co.

  #193  
Old 04-26-2020, 03:57 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Jonny - No, we're not that concerned for this car. ... I believe the date code 1 - 16 - 0 (K-1-0) is Jan. 16, 1970???

Dennis
well, for not being concerned, that's pretty good!!
The best one's I found, were not that good...
I may have slightly over paid, but evwn if I did, the multi-year search is over.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #194  
Old 04-26-2020, 06:46 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Jonny - The original CL spare is 4-9-0, or 2 weeks prior to assembly (04D build date on the Trim Tag), so the CL's we bought are really early.

Dennis.
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  #195  
Old 04-26-2020, 06:56 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Nice CL's are tough find.

Need to keep my eyes open in the wheel stacks, I'd like to measure the back spacing of a CL to that of an XT & IF coded 14x7.

Pontiac & Chevy just had to make things so much "fun" when they intro'ed the 2nd Gen F-body's. Less than a year later, before 71 production & a month later during the Fall '70 Strike, Pontiac engineers seem to have began condensing wheel code usage, not on all, but at least with some of the 4 3/4 boot pattern wheels.

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  #196  
Old 04-26-2020, 07:51 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
Nice CL's are tough find.

Need to keep my eyes open in the wheel stacks, I'd like to measure the back spacing of a CL to that of an XT & IF coded 14x7.

Pontiac & Chevy just had to make things so much "fun" when they intro'ed the 2nd Gen F-body's. Less than a year later, before 71 production & a month later during the Fall '70 Strike, Pontiac engineers seem to have began condensing wheel code usage, not on all, but at least with some of the 4 3/4 boot pattern wheels.
As it happens, I actually assembled a hodge-podged set of 14x7" wheels, then when I noticed the physical differences I decided to try to get a more correct, or at least a somewhat matching set;
I ended up later assembling a set of IF wheels prior to getting my CL's.

This is what I recorded from my initial hodge-podge set of 14x7" wheels:

IF = bs = 4-3/8”
CL = bs = 4-1/4” (1x K10-3(?)-13-CL; Kelsey Hayes; 1970; March 13th)
EM = bs = 4-3/8” (1x T13-4-9-EM; Norris Industries; 1973; April 9th)
UC = bs = 4-1/4” (1x K18–3–21–UC; Kelsey Hayes; 1978; March 21st)
TB = safari van wheel code; bs = 4-1/4” (1985??)

I found a website that showed how you were supposed to measure backspacing, and followed their directions.
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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #197  
Old 04-27-2020, 03:00 AM
FASTASSBIRD FASTASSBIRD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
Nice CL's are tough find.

Need to keep my eyes open in the wheel stacks, I'd like to measure the back spacing of a CL to that of an XT & IF coded 14x7.

Pontiac & Chevy just had to make things so much "fun" when they intro'ed the 2nd Gen F-body's. Less than a year later, before 71 production & a month later during the Fall '70 Strike, Pontiac engineers seem to have began condensing wheel code usage, not on all, but at least with some of the 4 3/4 boot pattern wheels.

I have some XF’s if you want those for your records. I know they are Camaro but why not? (68 SS DISC BRAKE Plain steel wheel)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  #198  
Old 05-25-2020, 05:20 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Default TH400 Removed for Check-Up

Dan got around to pulling the TH400 trans out to get it inspected (and cleaned up) and had to cut off the head pipes as they were in the way of dropping the tranny and have new Pypes 2.5" mandrel headpipes to take their place. The good news is the TH400 is original to the car with the VIN stamped on the case and the PQ tag still attached. Our tranny guy is going to go through it to make sure it has a clean bill of health and get new seals.

Dennis
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  #199  
Old 05-25-2020, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Dan got around to pulling the TH400 trans out to get it inspected (and cleaned up) and had to cut off the head pipes as they were in the way of dropping the tranny and have new Pypes 2.5" mandrel headpipes to take their place. The good news is the TH400 is original to the car with the VIN stamped on the case and the PQ tag still attached. Our tranny guy is going to go through it to make sure it has a clean bill of health and get new seals.

Dennis
So does Pypes sell headpipes that connect between 2nd Gen Bird RA manifolds and their X-Pipe/Transverse Muffler 2.5" exhaust system? I looked on their site a few months ago and didn't see any headpipes advertised. Sent them a note and got no response...

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70 Trans Am RA III / T400 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
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70 Formula RA III / M21 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
  #200  
Old 05-25-2020, 09:33 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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keith k - That's a good question. I never looked into that, but I assumed that they were part of the compete 'X'/Transverse muffler system. I just ordered the head pipes from Ames, not Pypes.

Dennis

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