#21  
Old 03-31-2014, 08:29 PM
87yjtoy 87yjtoy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brandon MS
Posts: 29
Default

more



And the reason I justified the purchase. this will look pretty good in my 55 GMC It came with a 288 Pontiac with dual range hydramatic trans

__________________
76 Formula 400/350
  #22  
Old 03-31-2014, 08:33 PM
87yjtoy 87yjtoy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brandon MS
Posts: 29
Default

date code on the #12 heads is C030. Now please tell me if it is worth trying to repair.
right now it has 14" crager ss wheels and AWSOME fur like covers on the seats and doors.
Those tires and wheels are off of my 76 formy will be coming off this week when I get something to put on it

__________________
76 Formula 400/350
  #23  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:10 PM
form74's Avatar
form74 form74 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois
Posts: 1,785
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy View Post
more


What is that where the radio should be.

  #24  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:20 PM
87yjtoy 87yjtoy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brandon MS
Posts: 29
Default

Indicator lights, they are controlled by matching switches on the left side of the dash. Radio power, radar detector power, mood lights, electric fuel pump. said at around 130 he needed more fuel pressure, so he would turn the extra pump on.

__________________
76 Formula 400/350
  #25  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:27 PM
2manyT/A'S's Avatar
2manyT/A'S 2manyT/A'S is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,021
Default

Well.it IS pretty UGLY......but kinda cool in it's own right....It's got everything you need for a "retro" rat rod.....

The roof and quarters look kinda scary....what's it look like underneath?

If you part it out....I want the 8 track player.

__________________



Eye Candy......garage band?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUPcHxHRx3s




Go full screen & turn it UP!
  #26  
Old 03-31-2014, 10:42 PM
87yjtoy 87yjtoy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brandon MS
Posts: 29
Default

Underside is almost as bad, driver pan will need help pass side is better but not by much.
That is a first gen PIONEER SUPER TUNER.

__________________
76 Formula 400/350
  #27  
Old 03-31-2014, 11:05 PM
FunctionalShaker FunctionalShaker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: A Flyover State
Posts: 2,558
Default

Definitely needs work around the rear window and into the trunk. Looks like a lot of bondo in the car.

  #28  
Old 03-31-2014, 11:19 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy

OH WOW!!!

That IS a Formula hood - and an early one at that!?

What a shame

I wonder if the hood pins played much in the cutting off of those scoops - theyre right where the scoops would be...

I guess I'm going to have to change my signature now - I might as well include the HPP RAIII car in the count and bring it up to four too...

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #29  
Old 03-31-2014, 11:33 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy View Post
date code on the #12 heads is C030.
Thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy View Post
Now please tell me if it is worth trying to repair.
right now it has 14" crager ss wheels and AWSOME fur like covers on the seats and doors.
Those tires and wheels are off of my 76 formy will be coming off this week when I get something to put on it
Honestly, My knee-jerk reaction is to run away - but alot is on gut feeling and appearance...

I love the Formula's and legit stick cars (three and four speed; 1,777mt vs 4,931at) are much rarer that the auto cars, but done to the nine's it's still not going to bring TA money - and then how much are you going to have to sink into it?

If you wanted a long term project, and planned on doing it all yourself, maybe - but from what I'm seeing there that will need ALOT of work...

Are the quarters and roof as bad as they look?

how about floors? / trunk?

hood, fenders, trunk are easy enough because you can replace them...
it's the unibody that will make or break the viability of this car being fixable.

It does look like a nicely appointed car - much like mine;
- ralley gauges w/tach
- console
- power steering
- power brakes

It might be worth fetting PHS on it - just incase.

Assuming the three speed is original to the car, there were fifteen Ram Air III cars built with the M13.


__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #30  
Old 04-01-2014, 07:10 AM
87yjtoy 87yjtoy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brandon MS
Posts: 29
Default

Not much bondo but a hugh amount of fiberglass. Floor pans are patchable, trunk pan has small holes in it maybe fixable not sure yet. Had it up on the lift on sunday and it seems like the structure is solid, all the rails and mounts looked good wheel houses look solid also.
Yes the pictures make it look better than it really is. If I get a chance I will put it on the lift today and take some pics there. where is the numbers stamped on the trans to check the vin ?
And whats the code I'm looking for to determine the 1 of 15 RA III cars?
Not looking for another long term project. So since I know that the engine is not OG pull it and let someone else take it on. Decisions to make.

__________________
76 Formula 400/350
  #31  
Old 04-01-2014, 08:04 AM
RicksGTO's Avatar
RicksGTO RicksGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Colleyville, Texas
Posts: 3,486
Default

the date code looks like they could be the original heads. #12's would have come on both the RAIII and standard 400 with manual trans. Also those look like the correct fenders for a '70.
I would be tempted get the PHS on the car before making a decision.
The only other way to be sure what engine option it came with is to look for a build sheet.

__________________
'72 Formula 455HO TH400, Revere Silver, black deluxe
'74 Trans Am SD 4 speed, Admiralty Blue, blue deluxe
  #32  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:16 AM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy
... where is the numbers stamped on the trans to check the vin ?
That can be tough to see - and they do move slightly depending on who stamped it;
according to my '70 Firebird service manual;
Quote:
The vehicle identification number is also stamped on a pad on the right upper side of the transmission case.
If you're lucky there will be an ID tag attached to one of the bottom side cover bolts - it would have a 'DG' to denote the correct three speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy
And whats the code I'm looking for to determine the 1 of 15 RA III cars?
There is none;
1970 model year cars need to have their numbers matching engines still there, a build sheet, or PHS to verify original options.

If those headsxare original to the car then the RAIII cars had engines with further back casting dates;
the numbers correct engine which I have for my car is roughly D300 casting date...

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #33  
Old 04-01-2014, 12:36 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

here are a couple pictures of my ID tag;



If you look just above (behind when installed) the ID tag location, there is the transmission ID stamping - this specifies the gear set and asembly date.

I can try to make a picture of the partial vin location later tonight.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #34  
Old 04-01-2014, 05:19 PM
87yjtoy 87yjtoy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brandon MS
Posts: 29
Default

Ok More info. engine stamped # is 21P3903?9 The question mark looks like a sideways stamped 9 .

On the transmission The stamped number is HOC19B the cast # is 3962882 and date code is B280.

Going to send off to PHS tomorrow. I am very interested in what it will say. Where all could the build sheet be. It has Camaro seats in it and I pulled all the rear seat and carpets out nothing there. could it be on the tank perhaps?

If I could find a good enough donor car I might be inclined to start a resto build on it..

If not, what kind of values are the rest of the parts worth?

Also just want to say thanks for all the help and understanding on this. I know that some sites are not that way.

Pat

__________________
76 Formula 400/350
  #35  
Old 04-01-2014, 05:29 PM
FunctionalShaker FunctionalShaker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: A Flyover State
Posts: 2,558
Default

Bondo contains fiberglass components, so we're essentially in the same "filler" boat, but I know what you mean. Yes, you might find the build sheet on top of the fuel tank. That was a lot of work to modify that formula hood.

  #36  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:04 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy View Post
Ok More info. engine stamped # is 21P3903?9 The question mark looks like a sideways stamped 9 .
21P3903-9
2 = Pontiac Motor Division
1 = 1971
P = Pontiac Michigan assembly plant (probably a Grand Prix motor)
(six digit number) = matches vin from the car it came from

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy View Post
On the transmission The stamped number is HOC19B the cast # is 3962882 and date code is B280.
HOC19B
H = Source code; Muncie built H.D. three speed; I believe H was for passenger cars, S was for light duty trucks, and M was for HD trucks.
0 = 1970 model year produced
C = Month built; C = March
19 = day of the month
B = gear set 'B'; 2.42/1.58/1.00/2.41R

Case casting number
These can sometimes be hard to read, but I believe it should be 3952882, as this matches the two Muncie three speeds I have documented so far.
1969 = 3911882
1970 = 3952882
1971 = ??
1972 = 3887948

Case casted date code
B = February
28 = 28th
0 = 1970 (calender year)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87yjtoy View Post
Going to send off to PHS tomorrow. I am very interested in what it will say. Where all could the build sheet be. It has Camaro seats in it and I pulled all the rear seat and carpets out nothing there. could it be on the tank perhaps?

If I could find a good enough donor car I might be inclined to start a resto build on it..

If not, what kind of values are the rest of the parts worth?

Also just want to say thanks for all the help and understanding on this. I know that some sites are not that way.

Pat
I am MORE than happy to help;
I might be the (self proclaimed maybe?) most nutty person on this site over three speed manual transmission - specifically Muncie three speeds, and specifically in respect to 1970 Firebirds ~ there is virtually NO information out there on these transmissions, so my info has taken a LONG time to compile.
There's so little info out htere on these, that many people don't even know that Muncie made a three speed;
One of my former bosses has a 1970 GTO (I can't recall if it's a Judge or not), but it's a three speed car, and I had to quietly/privately correct him after he told someone it was a saginaw three speed... he's a collector, and you should have seen his eyes bug out when I was explaining what his car was... lol

I'm very interested on learning of the PHS on this car;
BTW, the PHS will show no transmission option, because that's just it, nothing was ordered.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #37  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:30 PM
keith k's Avatar
keith k keith k is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,558
Default

Yep - interested to see the PHS. I'm betting base 400 car, but you never know.

I can't believe somebody amputated the Formula scoops. Never saw that before...

__________________
keith k
70 Trans Am RA III / T400 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
70 Trans Am RA III / M20 / Lucerne Blue / Sandalwood
70 Formula RA III / M21 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue
  #38  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:45 PM
87yjtoy 87yjtoy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Brandon MS
Posts: 29
Default

Yea I'm very interested to see the PHS also. Drove the dang thing some more today. starting to like the 3 spd. Sad that it is so far gone.

__________________
76 Formula 400/350
  #39  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:58 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

and here are pictures showing where the partial vin code should be;




I had to sort through my 'Firebird' folder on photobucket, so since I moved the two pictures earlier, and expect those links to die, here are the two pictures I posted earlier again (I had nearly 200 pictures, and they were getting all jumbled up);


__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #40  
Old 04-01-2014, 10:00 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,232
Default

just for kicks and giggles, I looked up your location on google maps;
A good thirty-four hour drive... sheesh.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:20 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017