#101  
Old 05-23-2018, 07:40 AM
"QUICK-SILVER" "QUICK-SILVER" is offline
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Originally Posted by chiphead View Post

I still like the idea of seeing if the noise is the same speed as a timing light or 2X faster. That would help indicate valvetrain or bottom end.
I wouldn't turn another bolt on this engine untill this is done.

Would really like to know if RPM rods got used in the build. Then if the knock is two times faster than the timing light blink....I'd know or at least have a good idea on where to be looking.

Clay

PS
Joe,
Mail went out Monday morning.

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  #102  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:20 AM
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Chiphead,
This is a roller cam motor with a stock valley pan. I believe the windage tray is stock. Maybe Paul would be able to give a little more information if he sees this post. I plan on taking off the intake and valley pan off this weekend. I'll make sure that I don't clean it and I will take pictures and post them.

NeighborsComplaint,
The motor was built with the existing roller rockers that were in the KRE heads when I sent them to Paul. 1.65 rockers were there before and I replaced them with Crowers 1.65. There were marks on a few of the rockers that appeared to be witness marks from the poly locks that seems too short. Once we started the car with the Crowers, it made the same noise. The loudest location of the noise is coming from the area of the flexplate. After speaking to some guys, I now understand that the sound could just travel and be released from there.

JLMounce,
I did notice that as well. The car was not idling great because it was cold and the carb does need some tweaking. So I don't know if the sound difference came from poor idle. I'll find out this weekend.

JSPONT,
There were some marks that valve cover but it seemed more like machine grinding. Not that I have any experience identifying witness marks but HWYSTR455 thinks it's certainly a possibility.

"QUICK-SILVER",
Hey Clay. Your rockers are getting delivered today. I just checked the tracking number. Let me know when you get them and I'll let you know when I get the check. I don't remember what rods Paul used for this build. I'm hooking everything back up this evening and going to start the car again. I'll have my buddy do the test with the timing light.

Just to let you guys know...Paul has been outstanding to deal with. He has a great reputation and he's been in constant contact with me. He feels bad about this but every text he replies back and every call he picks up. I have no regrets at all with him.

  #103  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:53 AM
"QUICK-SILVER" "QUICK-SILVER" is offline
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Originally Posted by Va68goat View Post
Let me know when you get them
Will do that. Got my fingers crossed that I can take two sets and make one set I can use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Va68goat View Post
I'll have my buddy do the test with the timing light.
Got to do that before experimenting taking stuff apart. Depending on what happens, you'll know what direction or where to start looking.

Clay

  #104  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:53 AM
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Factory 'style' valley pan and windage tray, they are Tomahawk units.

One thing I personally haven't checked is plug wire/firing order, could use a once-over to at least eliminate.

Don't bother hooking everything up, you don't need to in order to test with the light, and will save you some time if it has to come out.

It's tough to zero in on where exactly the noise is coming from, like what general location, noise bounces off the firewall, the concrete floor, etc, and it just isn't obvious exactly what the source is. The source can also cause a 'ring' of other parts too, which are not the source.

Timing light might be a good way to tell if it's crank-rotation-related or valvetrain, but I think it would still be deceiving, and not matter. Removing the valley pan would be a sure thing, and thinking you might be able to sneak a peak down to the tray.

If the valley pan is removed, it would positively eliminate/confirm it's valvetrain. If not valvetrain, engine would have to come out regardless.

Removing engine with manifolds is not that bad, can be done in under 4 hours. Just need to make sure coolant drained as much as possible, and removing the block plug is a good way.

Need to figure out what gaskets were used, and how sealant was applied. (sure Paul can chime in on that). Would help with R&R, and possibly saving some gaskets.

What's the deal on RPM rods Clay? My understanding is if they are prepped right, there's no issues?

.

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  #105  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:04 AM
tom s tom s is offline
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Too many chefs in the kitchen,get it out and get it to Paul.JMHO,Tom

  #106  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post

What's the deal on RPM rods Clay? My understanding is if they are prepped right, there's no issues?

.
The wide little end bumping the counter weight coming down on BDC. May not touch enough while building to notice. But once things get settled in....

Just got me wondering. Especially since the knock hasn't changed after this much run time.

Clay

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  #107  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:12 AM
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Too many chefs in the kitchen,get it out and get it to Paul.JMHO,Tom
Crating and shipping back and forth from VA to AZ would be like $1000+, and at least 3 weeks. Trying to avoid that, especially if it's something simple.

.

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  #108  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER" View Post
The wide little end bumping the counter weight coming down on BDC. May not touch enough while building to notice. But once things get settled in....

Just got me wondering. Especially since the knock hasn't changed after this much run time.

Clay
It really doesn't have that much run time, maybe a total of 2-3 hours max. I commented the same on the phone with Paul, but if it is a rod just barely touching the tray, the tray can flex just enough to get pushed out of the way.

My thoughts were if it were a tray contact thing, usually it just grabs it and twists it up, or punches a hole in it, and the engine doesn't run long, or looses oil psi.

.

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  #109  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER" View Post
The wide little end bumping the counter weight coming down on BDC.
Clay
Mental note made, thanks for explaining!

.

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  #110  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER" View Post
The wide little end bumping the counter weight coming down on BDC. May not touch enough while building to notice. But once things get settled in....

Just got me wondering. Especially since the knock hasn't changed after this much run time.

Clay
Not sure if Joe mentioned - the engine has h-beam rods

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  #111  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:38 AM
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Yeah, HWYSTR455...Shipping the motor from Tucson Arizona to Virginia cost me $587 plus the cost of the crate which was about $200.

  #112  
Old 05-23-2018, 10:10 AM
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Does he not already have the crate he got it in?Tom

  #113  
Old 05-23-2018, 10:38 AM
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Hey Tom,

I had the crate made in Arizona, right around the block from Paul's shop. It was a crate made from a wooden pallet and heavy plywood on an engine stand. I dont have the crate anymore.

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Old 05-23-2018, 11:43 AM
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Bummer!That would have made it more easy.Tom

  #115  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:49 AM
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The rods are SCAT. The valley pan is Tomahawk, and the windage tray is a stock one that was not cracked. IMO they mainly crack from crankshaft out of balance, and that causing the main caps to walk more than usual.

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  #116  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:55 AM
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Also the marks in the valve covers are from the manufacturer machining off casting flash. No rockers hitting them. They had a bunch of clearance.

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  #117  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gtofreek View Post
Also the marks in the valve covers are from the manufacturer machining off casting flash. No rockers hitting them. They had a bunch of clearance.
Right, and my comments were 'if I didn't know better would say valve cover contact', which prompted me to say something about the 'ring' from other parts. There are a couple very minor scratches in the corners of the covers, but those are probably from R&Rs.

If it does come out of the car, I suggested replacement/upgrade of the oil pan, like a Moroso or Canton road race. Matching tray of course, since if it is the tray, and it was making contact, it's junk now (depending on the amount/type of contact). Could just reuse the pan on there and go no tray too.

Paul, do you recall how the pickup is on the pump? Did you pin or stake it? Oh, and gaskets, did you glue the gasket to the valley pan and not to the block too?

.

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  #118  
Old 05-23-2018, 02:48 PM
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Pickup is tig welded to pump. Valley pan gasket is glued to valley pan with rubber cement, and to the block with silicone. Also, I wouldn't run that pan without a windage tray.

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  #119  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:07 PM
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With that noise, I sure would get my hand on the bottom of the oil pan and try to "feel" the noise. If you can feel it, in the oil pan, the engine has to come out. Sounds low down inside to me.

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  #120  
Old 05-25-2018, 09:29 AM
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Do you have vacuum advance? Is it plugged into manifold vacuum?

I had a car once that made that exact noise. I unplugged the vacuum advance and it went away. Had too much timing, and that sounds like pre-ignition noise to me.


Just a thought, would be funny if something simple after all that chasing

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