[motorcitymusclecar]

Originally Posted by pmdclassics

I must be one of those "6 Guys" cause I have a bone stock TA and the tube they sent me was not even close to what the sales rep said he was shipping me. The guy pretty much said I was screwed when I called IT back on it. Nope, my money says that number of 6 is much much higher! I had several PM's back then from others that were not satisfied with IT either. Lets try this, can I return the tube that was sent to me in error and get a full refund?

I helped MP get over the hill on his issue i am sure i can help you also. You are one of the 6 and you know you posted over the years on just about every inline tube thread with neg comments, Your name comes up several times on all the inline tube threads. I also adressed you a few months back on a post but we can start again. How many years ago was it.

I doubt anyone that works for me told you that " You were screwed" or had anything rude to say.

Lets try this - give me your name the date you placed the order and your invoice # so i can look it up. I will read the notes in the invoice and post the other side of the story - and if you were wronged i will make it right. I will probally make it right even if inline tube did nothing wrong.

[motorcitymusclecar]

Here is the text from a few months ago since the box is open all can read. You can see we spent alot of time on the issue 5 years ago - 3 months ago and now.

MP kind

MP wrote: I would like to see that response if you ever got one, but I wouldn't hold my breath. They can't reply. To do so would only add fuel to the fire. You'd post their response, we'd all get irrate and chime in...it'd be ugly. I say pi$$ on 'em. At this point, I'd rather see them fail then get a clue. Part of me thinks that they don't like to help out because they're too lazy (and cheap).”

Inline tube wrote : Read my responses all over the site, never wanted to get involved because it is the same 6 guys over the last 10 years out of over 150,000 orders. read all the good comments and go to the car show and see who has more lines on cars than any other company. I am acting now because I can’t take the entire one sided half truths and a great company is being smired by a few guys over and over and over on every post. Lets post the rest of the story. I will be on every day just like you guys – the olds site too.


Inline tube wrote: Matt Kind

I am sorry I was not able to call up your invoice since it was 5 years ago and we are now on invoice number 113,654 which is about 73,000 invoices later. But after talking to the sales manager Marc and one of the other sales guys we surprisingly remember many of the details. You did order brake and fuel lines for you 65 Catalina a set that we have been selling for 10 years at that point. If you look at our listings today 15 years later they are the same. The same lines we sell AMES – Performance Years and anyone else that sells parts for the full size Pontiac.

You stated the main brake line and the fuel line was wrong. We asked for some pictures to make sure it was not an install problem and from the pictures we could see something was not right but from the pictures that is all we could tell. We told you that you were welcome to send any line that did not match the original with the original line and we would take care of the problem by making the line off your original.

There was some reason you did not do that, either you did not have the originals or they were rusted into pieces those are the 2 most common excuses. First the number one rule in mechanics is never throw away the original before comparing it to the new part and I have never seen I line that was so rusty that we could not duplicate it. Some guys say it is rusted into little pieces – I hate to see what the rest of the car looks like since the brake tubing is .028 thick and most of sheet metal is thinner, there would be no car left to put lines back on.

It is not uncommon for lines to vary from our patterns since there were many venders for the OEM and slightly different versions of the same line. We always give the customer the benefit of the doubt and if they are unhappy with any line they can send it in with the old one – this is stated all over the web site – in the instructions in the box and one the back page of every catalog. I am sorry we can not make lines out of the air with measurements off a tape measure. We need the physical line. Again we can discuss all day how it could bend hear or there but with out the original there is nothing we can do. We do not have bend cards like the exhaust guys every line we make was scanned from an original that is in our pattern library.

Still to this day we have not had an issue with this part or anyone send in another version – it may exist but we have never seen it. I know you wanted to educate the sales guys on the 4door and wagon and other frames but the only way to resolve the problem was to send the original off your car. If someone else had a problem we would have corrected the listing by now we sell this kit a few times a year.

Since 65 Catalina is not GTO or Chevelle we make it once it is ordered. So it is considered special order. Now if a guy tells us up front it is for a 4 door or wagon we advise him that it may be different and once we make them there is no return. You stated you had a 2 door and there is no reason to have this conversation. So to make a special order brake line set takes a guy usually a half a day of labor and a fuel line another 1.5 hours of time. Plus the tubing, fittings and any other materials, then the set goes to shipping and is handled again – then the paper work goes back to the sales guys to charge the order. Your set is handled by at least 5 people in a 6 hour period to get it out the door in 24-48 hours. We make little to no profit on special orders we do them to help you guys out. Most other line companies do not do special orders and do not even offer this car. On special orders again if there is a problem send the old in with the new and we will fix it – you never sent them.

I really do believe we have 99.8% happy customers – there is always someone no matter how hard you try will not be happy. We do make mistakes it happens and we take care of them as quickly as we can but some times that requires the customer to help also. Not every one knows as much about there car as you do and in 15 years we have heard it all. “ how do I tell if it is disc brakes” – “what’s a power booster” – “does my car have one of those”. We try to help them all out and some do not even place an order after talking to the sales guys for 1 hour.

There was no typo in the order, you were not sent the wrong parts, we answered your questions the best we could and we spent a lot of time on your order – but again it comes down to if you had a line that was different you could send it in and we would make it for free. Just provide us with the physical line and we would make it and send it back if for free. You talked about taking it off a 4 door of a different year or some other car and that would not help we needed the line off your car. Lines are very specific for year make and model.


I started going on the site because I was tired of reading half the story – good companies get bashed all the time with out all the facts – there is not a company on this site that has not been slammed at one time or another. No customer service issue goes bad right off the bat it is a give and take situation that that gets worst with no cooperation. In your case there would have been no problem if you had the originals. They could have been sent in and we would have resolved what ever issue you had.

We make over 20,000 different parts and we add 300 new ones every 6 months, we provide a lot of parts in this industry and while sometimes things go wrong most of the time it goes right.

Even today 5 years later if you had the original you could send it in with the one we made and if there was a difference we would have no problem correcting it.

Sincerely

John – inline tube


Hi Matt

Sorry but we have no way to make the line adjustments with out a physical line to follow or scan. We would not be able to modify from pictures or hand drawings either. We would need the original line or the frame that line was to be fit on. Even if we just bent something up from pictures chances are it would not fit and we would be doing it all again.

You have a 65 Catalina and the lines are very specific to that year make and model. The year before is different and the year after is also different that is why there is a different part number for each year if they were the same, the part number would be the same. Lines from 4 doors, wagons and other models are similar but are always different they are the same in the front and back but the middle changes to account for the different wheel base and sometimes the gas tank is pushed back. If you pick up an assembly manual you will see GM called out a different front to rear brake line for each model while the front and rear stayed the same.

Next 66 is another completely different brake system since the frame was changed and now the flat front brass distribution block was completely different from the 65. I have linked the pictures
65 looks like this http://www.inlinetube.com/Prop%20Valves/BLK403.htm and the 66 looks like this http://www.inlinetube.com/Prop%20Valves/BLK401.htm they do not interchange the lines are different. So 66 4door is a completely different car and in no way work on the car and still does not prove the point that our line was wrong. You still have a 65 2 door and we would need a line off a 65 2 door the same car as yours.

As stated before “in 16 years I have never seen I line that was so rusty that we could not duplicate it. If you would have sent in the original and it was different from the one we had we would have taken care of it for free. But since the lines were off some other year car and a 4door this helps neither party and we would have charged for this custom duplication. If they were off the same car as yours and there was a difference we again would of made them for free.

I am glad you got some other company to make the lines for you for free. This was no good deal since they only got some of the lines and they were off a 4 door which is not a 2 door and now depending on what you told them they are selling them as 65 2door which will not work since they are 66 4 door – this is why I do not take in many customer lines the information is not accurate. We rather just pull our own.

I wish I could spent the time to educate and talk to every customer but there is not enough time in the day, the sales guys are very good and we spend a lot of time putting hundreds of pages of information on the inline tube web page to help as mush as possible. There are 24 employees at inline tube so someone is always there to help but most of the time I am busy with other operations and not able to take phone calls. This is typical with all companies our size.

Sincerely

John – Inline Tube

[MPKind]

Just to summarize the latest between me and John.

We had a long conversation on over the phone, hashed things out, told our versions of the story and put the whole matter to rest for good.

I clearly understand that IT has a HUGE inventory of parts, and that a lot of time and effort goes into getting parts right. In my case, they hadn't come across a 65 B-Body with an open channel frame, so there's no way to make the line they currently sell fit properly since it's for a closed frame rail car. It's as simple as that. If I had saved (still kicking myself) the lines from my car and sent them out, they would've had PHYSICAL PROOF that yet another variation of fuel/brake lines exist for that car. If I ever come across a set of lines, I'd be more than happy to provide IT with them.

We did discuss modifying their pattern to fit my car, but again there's no guarantee the lines would fit. I can see how if they did that everytime someone asked, it would cause a lot of heartburn if things didn't go as expected. So if you can read between the lines (no pun intended), the message is: if your parts from IT DON'T fit and you DON'T have the originals to prove that IT's are incorrect, tough hop. In that case, the burden of proof is with the customer. If you were IT and someone called about issues, the first thing you'd ask for is some proof to show why IT's parts don't fit your car.

I've been thinking about why certain folks are still bitter, like I was. I think it's because certain customers expect perfection from a business when they send them money for parts or services. If a business makes an honest effort to be as comprehensive as possible, it doesn't mean they'll discover every conceivable variation of a part for a car. Do things go south for some customers, sure, but when your dealing with 30-40 year old cars, there's some risk involved when buying aftermarket parts. We're damn lucky that we have so many different vendors to buy parts from. I've looked at IT's catalog, and it covers way more vehicle and applications than anyone else.

I learned the hard way about variations in parts. Even after I'd studied my car over and over, I had no clue that different variations existed until I received lines from IT and they didn't fit. Afterwards, I found documentation that described different frames for 65. Does IT believe me when I told them about the different frame, sure, but they won't do anything until they have physical proof. I can respect that policy.

It's true that I still don't have the lines I need. I told John I'd fabricate them myself if I couldn't locate originals. He then sent me a message that he would offer up rolls of tubing to help out. I thought that was mighty big of him to do that considering the amount of grief I gave IT over the past few years.

Did I do a 180 with my attitude about IT, sure, why not? Doesn't mean I'm a kiss-ass, but rather I don't think it's worth being bitter about this issue anymore. I'll make the best of the materials John is willing to send me, get the plumbing fabricated, installed, and move on to the next part of my restoration.

In closing, to all the other bellyachers out there that have an existing issue with IT, either get over it yourself, or correspond with John privately to resolve it.

Have a great day!!!!

Matt Kind

[pmdclassics]

I will dig out the box and check for the invoice.

Originally Posted by motorcitymusclecar

I helped MP get over the hill on his issue i am sure i can help you also. You are one of the 6 and you know you posted over the years on just about every inline tube thread with neg comments, Your name comes up several times on all the inline tube threads. I also adressed you a few months back on a post but we can start again. How many years ago was it.

I doubt anyone that works for me told you that " You were screwed" or had anything rude to say.

Lets try this - give me your name the date you placed the order and your invoice # so i can look it up. I will read the notes in the invoice and post the other side of the story - and if you were wronged i will make it right. I will probally make it right even if inline tube did nothing wrong.

[pmdclassics]

Wow, I finally found the invoice. I can fax it over if you like.

[motorcitymusclecar]

Fax it over - put atten: John to make sure i get it. 586 532 1339

[Forrest]

Every car I've done in the last 6 years or so I used inline, great service and prompt shipping

[scotzz]

Originally Posted by motorcitymusclecar

MPKIND Wrote: “bought a complete set of stainless fuel and brake lines for 65 Catalina. When I tried to install them, they didn't fit. P8's were built on either a boxed frame or a
c-channel frame. I later discovered that Inline only makes lines that fit on a boxed frame. Partly my mistake for not knowing exactly what model and body style Pontiacs used the C-channel frame, but try to find any documentation on it. On the other hand, when I pointed out the fact that the lines were wrong for my car, they told me to find the right ones, send them out, and they'll make new ones. Right. “

MPkind called inline tube and stated the front to rear brake line did not fit the car. We always ask for simple digital pictures to be emailed to us to see if we can help with the install. If we cannot help with the pictures we ask for the customer to send in the old line with the one we made and we will take care of it. MP had every excuse for not sending the product back – The lines were all missing – they were rusted into pieces – I don’t have them. After many phone calls and hours spent no lines every showed up for inline tube to make from.
MP has a 2 door and I think a parts car and wanted to send us a 4door line and we told him it was not the same. It was best to send the original line off the car. After a few more calls he insisted the 4 door was the same although they are not and inline tube told him we could only make it off a 2 door to ensure it would fit and end the problem. He later called another tubing company and told them it was a 2door and sent it to them and they made it. The 4door lines are now listed as 2door in another tubing companies catalog – this helps no one and is only creating new problems for the other company.
A few months back Inline Tube and MPkind had a private back and forth on the issue again if I can find it I will post it. I have responded to the issue 3 times on this board and many phone calls at inline tube. In order to make a part we need an original just like every other company.
This is one of the lingering Inline tube issues from many years ago, that has no resolution – we have been sending out the 65 Catalina for many years with no issues – Ames, Performance Years, California Pontiac buy it on a regular basis with no problems. We have never changed the patterns and aside from this complaint that I know of there has never been another issue.
MP got the line from another company and for free and posts neg on every inline tube thread.

Are the GTO/Tempest brake lines from Ames and PY sourced throuh Inline?

[motorcitymusclecar]

Yes - Inline tube is a supplier to all the pontiac Parts suppliers, We supply Ames, PY, Original Parts Group, Year One, The paddock and a bunch of the smaller guys. We supply brake and fuel lines, parking brake cables, brake and fuel clips, trans cooler lines, engine pump to carb lines and many other detail items. Many of the larger items are drop shipped as the orders come in and some of the dealers stock the more popular parts.

[TEG]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Every car I've done in the last 6 years or so I used inline, great service and prompt shipping

Ditto from me. Every time I have a question, John helps me out.

[JPettini]

Ask them about a 1970 12 bolt rear axle on 455 GTO's. Ordered the brake lines from them with all the right information.They sent 10 bolt lines so that the rear lines wouldn't line up with the bracket. Said GTO's never had 12 bolt even though I sent them the picture from the restoration manuel. Never sent me the right ones and wouldn't refund my money. Had to make different bracket to use the wrong lines. Will never deal with them again.

[motorcitymusclecar]

The reason the sales guys do not know is because there is no difference in the lines from the 10 bolt to the 12 bolt. I own the company and have many GTO's and am completely aware of the axles but again the lines are the same for 10 and 12 bolt but the rear end bracket that bolts to the top of the axle is different and we call this out as 10 and 12 bolt.

But as it states in all our info if you have a line that does match our patters you are welcome to send it in and we will make it. These axle lines are one of our most popular lines that we have been making for over 17 years I have them on several of my cars also. Maybe it is not the lines and it is the wrong bracket or the rear is not what you think it is. - John -inline tube or www.inlinetube.com

[motorcitymusclecar]

John - From inline tube here - we do not list a difference in the 10 and 12 bolt rear axle lines because they are the same lines but the mounting bracket on the rear end changes for the 12 and 10 bolt and we have and list both of these brackets. Again the lines are the same that is why the bracket changes. We have been making GTO stuff for over 17 years and i own many GTO's and i have never had this problem.

But if you have a different version of line on your car we would like to see it. It says in all our instructions that if you have something different send it in and we will make it. But this is one of our most popular lines it fits 68-72 GTO and many other A-bodies and after 17 years you would think we would know about it. Maybe there is another problem with the axle. Is it the original from the car, has the bracket been changed or has there been any other modification that may be the problem.

We would absolutly refund if the parts were returned or you can send the originals with the ones we made and we would look into it and tell you what the problem is. Not all A-body axles are the same. john

[Sidponcho]

John and I have talked a few times now. About a year ago, John saw that I had a parts car with a complete set of fuel lines that he wanted for a pattern. He sent me a box and I sent him the lines. Then he sent me a set of new body mounts and bolts. Darn good deal for both of us.

Fast forward to this week and I needed help ordering the right stuff for my 68. John called me right back, knew exactly what I needed, and then took my order. I have no doubt the stuff will be right. Will report back in a week.

Top notch