[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by fastgto

This was e-mailed to me today Dec 26th from Barry Grant`s people. Cross your fingers on this and we will see what happens. Seems strange they are working the 26th though.

fastgto, we were open the 26th,27th and 28th and we make an effort to try and answer the emails in a timely manner. I am aware that this has not occured in the past thus the response you received that Barry made changes in the tech support department that resulted in the head technical advisor and the people under him are no longer with the company.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

I'm glad that BG even went to this extreme in this case. I have one of these intakes the customer brought for his build to my shop. I think I see the issue with the second bolt hole back on the drivers side. Too tight a fit to install a factory type bolt & draw snug properly.
** First off I would try the smaller headed 12 point S.S. ARP bolts. I tried one and not an issue & looks that a SS bolt with washer will fit. Maybe he has the later intake design?
The customer didn't have the carbs so is this going to be an issue I need to address before I attempt to mount it on the engine?

The intake is untouched so if there is any issues Feel free to contact me and I will send it back, if that's Ok with BG to make corrections or exchange it?

Thanks for your on line efforts and responses. Better then some businesses out there (and people & they know who they are ) when issues develop and never even have courtesy to help their customers, replace said product or respond to readers.

So if anyone else is going to not do business because they had an issue that was at least attempted to resolve with a return and even come on line to help. Then also apply that same ideal to said vendors that don't offer any support of said product or response. Wink, wink.

Look at the fit issues with the Edelbrock Victor. I don't see those sales dropping. Hurricane intake, flexplates, Perfromer rpm, and the list goes on. Some of this is a given with me in the aftermarket business as it's not a stock rebuild and taken with a grin of salt. Ya gotta do what ya got to do. I've even had issues with factory parts but still love and race my Pontiacs. LOL.

Like RW said. two sides and have heard both. The banter can go on for ever as to who said what. Pics will tell the story.

Let me know what ya want me to do? PM e-mail or call 352-796-8800, Thanks, Ken.other

[Tech @ BG]

Here is the first of several pictures. These were taken as it was received by us and before we took any action with it.

[Tech @ BG]

#2 . Also I know the pics are small but if you click on them it will bring them up in a larger size.

[Tech @ BG]

#3 picture

[Tech @ BG]

#4 picture

[Tech @ BG]

Last one

[Region Warrior]

Darn it.
Didnt get a chance to see pic's at work, and home puter color drive is fubar.
Have to wait till Monday now.

P-Dude, could a stud w/nut be used at that location instead of a bolt?

Agree on Victor's and RPM's.
Have had mounting issue's with a couple. Sounds simular as the 6-Shooter.
One RPM would not pull down/seal evenly on both banks till grinding out 4 holes.
Same with a Victor, but required lots more grinding to match.

[Tom Vaught]

I must have one of the early 6 Shooter intakes too.

I looked at my intake a few minutes ago and can see the obvious issues that the other poster had.

Here is the deal:

There are two bolt holes on top of the water cross-over. When that area was cast there was a very generous radius put into the casting mold where the mounting flange blends into the top of the cross-over. This makes an bolt hole that does not have a parallel surface with the head flange. You put a bolt without a washer into the hole and only 1/2 of the bolt head will contact the manifold due to the generous radius. This is present on both sides of the cross-over.

THE ONLY way to fix this deal is to spot face the area around the bolt hole so that you have a FLAT surface to apply even torque to the surface of the mounting flange. I can see where the man thought by grinding on the surface you would make it better. The only way to do it right and have it look right is with the spot face tool. That is two of the 4 issues mentioned by the poster.

The other two issues are a similar problem with the bolt holes in the front of the #2 runner and #1 runner. Same kind of WIDE generous radius for the casting but again the radius does not allow the bolt to seat properly. In this case the radius is located in the blend from the mounting flange to the runner front side wall. Problem here is that a normal spot face tool will not work as the carb mounting flange masks the bolt hole from a line of sight to the centerline of the mounting hole. A special tool that would go through the manifold bolt hole then allow attachment of a cutting tool is necessary. Such a tool is made but the average Pontiac guy would never have access to it. With this tool the area could be spot-faced parallel to the head flange like the cross-over hole.

It appears to me that we had a case of OH $chit! on the runner bolt holes and lazy attitude on the rest of the holes AFTER they found out they could not do the front runner holes properly. Probably someone in production said, "Screw it, let the customer figure this design screw-up out".

I personally know that with the right tools and McLaren Racing's expert machinists I could get my manifold fixed. It would not be cheap. Course I did not pay $2600 for my deal as I bought the thing at the last Norwalk Pontiac Nationals swap meet.

Asking a customer to cough up an additional $350.00 to fix his intake sounds about right for the labor costs to fix the thing BUT for the same $350.00 you can buy a brand new Ames Performance Aluminum Rochester carb intake. It might require minor tweaks but you are not out $2600 before you even get started in the deal.

The casting guy at BG as I said kicked out a decent looking intake BUT the machining guys got lazy of the final machining with bolt holes in the wrong spots on the carb flanges, no spot faced bolt holes, non machined intake to head flange surfaces, etc.

JMO

Tom Vaught (ENGINEER and Pontiac Enthusiast)

[67 Lamnas]

Hey Tom, Did you get your BG set-up from Mike Wasson at Norwalk? He had three and I helped assemble the one on display there......all three were early production set-ups...
ting hole
Just wondering as we observed the bolt hole issues and also the carb mounting hole location problem for the front carb....

[eric65]

The good thing for me is its aluminum and I bought a polishing kit from Eastwoods
Bad thing is that it will be much labor But I got time right?? Will teach me to be lazy about sending something back to the manufacture a 2nd time..
The tech guy showed pix of the bottom and I did have to remove surface here to match for my valley pan gasket combo which must of had a high gasket. I never complained about this to bg or anyone as its un-noticeable. Why tech posted pix I can only figure to state their case. My complaint was about the finish on the showing side of intake.
Thanks
eric65

[GonicGM]

Originally Posted by eric65

...
The tech guy showed pix of the bottom and I did have to remove surface here to match for my valley pan gasket combo which must of had a high gasket...
Thanks
eric65

I feel for you for all the issues that you've had. Regarding statement above, I would modify the intake to clear a valley pan but not a gasket. I'd trim the gasket, needs not be any larger than valley pan installed. Tuck the gasket in as far as possible or flush to edge of pan (whichever comes first). Remember, the 65-up valley pans have notches around the intake runners. The 64 and earlier do not. Many if not all 65 and newer intakes will hit at the runners on the 64 and earlier valley pans.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by eric65

The good thing for me is its aluminum and I bought a polishing kit from Eastwoods
Bad thing is that it will be much labor But I got time right?? Will teach me to be lazy about sending something back to the manufacture a 2nd time..
The tech guy showed pix of the bottom and I did have to remove surface here to match for my valley pan gasket combo which must of had a high gasket. I never complained about this to bg or anyone as its un-noticeable. Why tech posted pix I can only figure to state their case. My complaint was about the finish on the showing side of intake.
Thanks
eric65

Just a simple question.

Do I understand this right? You decided to polish it and then 3/4's the way thru decided you want you money back? And also after you ground on the bottom side quite noticably.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by GonicGM

I feel for you for all the issues that you've had. Regarding statement above, I would modify the intake to clear a valley pan but not a gasket. I'd trim the gasket, needs not be any larger than valley pan installed. Tuck the gasket in as far as possible or flush to edge of pan (whichever comes first). Remember, the 65-up valley pans have notches around the intake runners. The 64 and earlier do not. Many if not all 65 and newer intakes will hit at the runners on the 64 and earlier valley pans.

I take the gasket pushed in as far as I can with a wide tipped screwdriver once I Snug the pan bolts down. Then take a knife and run it down the rail to remove any excess gasket. Nice and clean install.

[eric65]

Do I understand this right? You decided to polish it and then 3/4's the way thru decided you want you money back?

Never said wanted money back after polishing was asking for a new manifold
They advised me I could remove excess material or they could. I tried after looking at the finish then was wondering how to make ot even. Well as Tom V says prob the only way to get the finish even is the tooling he is talking bout. I dont have it so next with my limits is polishing. and ya I sent back after going a ways on it..

My beefs are this
1) the 1st time it was back @ BG (obviuos they knew of bolt issue) why didnt they rectify then? Or advise me of this so decision can be made then?
2) why advise me I could remove excess material myself or send it again and they can try
3) and when I did send it back they have been very hard a$$ with me..their only recommend was tumbling.. The offer to buy another only came after a letter to BG.. after a couple of months

No compalint with bottom other than it should have been a better fit these are very thick on bottom and placing my valley cover there with gaskter it hit, BUT you cant see mods here can you. So acceptable Didnt like having to do it but acceptable as its hidden...

[Tom Vaught]

Like I said Kenny, the original Sin is with BG not machining the manifold proberly.

The second sin was telling the customer HE could try and fix it vs saying send it back for repair or money back.

Third sin is ASSUMING that any aftermarket part will be a totally free of issues bolt on application. Very few are. Oil Pumps, intakes, camshafts, I check everything.

Tom V.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Like I said Kenny, the original Sin is with BG not machining the manifold proberly.

The second sin was telling the customer HE could try and fix it vs saying send it back for repair or money back.

Third sin is ASSUMING that any aftermarket part will be a totally free of issues bolt on application. Very few are. Oil Pumps, intakes, camshafts, I check everything.

Tom V.

Tom according to the posts above he was told he could send it back but decided to do it himself. Not being on the phone to hear both sides but see the post of said conversation and not wanting to send it back again.
It is one thing to grind for clearance and another to polish 3/4's of the intake and then want a refund, another or justice.
Tom, look at the final result on the intake he returned and wanting an exchange. It's one thing to return it grinding on the bolt hole location another to take it back after all that grinding. If you do it for one then you would open the door to everyone doing it.

Yes, the early pieces seemed to have an issue ........... that is now corrected.

Yes, I too check everything, but sometimes you have to get almost done to check something and then fix it. Just part of the aftermarket hop up deal.
They offered to take care of it each time. I don't know what more a company can do when a person calls with a problem and offers to fix it. It isn't like they told him to GFH.

I can see the carb mounting deal as that had to do with a program designed to drill and tap holes that went south till it was noticed. Probably after intakes already went out the door. But they fixed it. Then the bolt hole deal If done properly would hardly have been noticed. I have ground intakes and glass beaded the dog out of them in that area and you would be hard pressed with all the crap on the engine to notice it............ unless you were Anal retentive.

I remember a certain Pontiac company ignored and hung people out to dry and people never posted a response for fear of doing business with them in the future. Shame. I think BG did go out of their way to make it right. :D ;)

Not referring to any other Parts issues anywhere else or any other time, but they did give solutions, just the owner went slightly overboard. I too would suggest elongating the carb hole. I too would have told him to grind it. But still give a person the option to return it which they did both times. Seems like more and more people are getting more & more impatient rather that thinking things out. But then again if ya do your own stuff and it isn't stock, you will have to put up with the trials and tribulations of engine bulding 101 as I have been told. LOL>

I'm probably now on eric'slist of people not to do business with :( but right is right and wrong is wrong.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Tom. I know lots of people that have taken NEW FORDS back to the dealer to fix ........ and even the same problem over and over. So what does that mean. Don't buy a Ford? LOL.

[GonicGM]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

...I have ground intakes and glass beaded the dog out of them in that area and you would be hard pressed with all the crap on the engine to notice it............

If you actually hit it with coarse sand at moderate pressure, you could probably get a texture like cast as well...as long as the sand doesn't embed and you have to dig it out. But as we all know, sandblasting sucks and you don't want to do it in your cabinet.

[Dick Boneske]

The OEM setups look better all the time!! I have yet to read a posting by anyone that has used one of the "BG Sixshooters" and had no problems with it. For $2,600, one would expect everything to fit--especially after these have been proclaimed by so many to be so great!!