[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

All, I called BG tech support and explained that I had an early manifold and wanted it reworked to production specs. They gave me a return authorizaton number and said to ship just the intake back in the seperate box that it was packaged in. I opened the big box for the first time, removed the intake box, and shipped it on 01/16/2008. I'll report on what happens.

I never opened the carb boxes but (to address the previous threads) I will take them over to a buddies carb shop and we'll open the boxes, remove the air horns, and inspect the fuel bowls for debris. That way it's not just my word for it.

Rob

Rob, We received your intake and it should be shipping back out to you today so with any luck you will have it back before the weekend.

[speedshopmike]

ron,
post up who the knobgobbler is who ratted you out so we know who to avoid helping out.
bg tech - c'mon, leaving it your vendors and WD's to do the right thing by the end customer is fully bogus.
people spending the kinda $ your products cost deserve better then that - every customer buying any part deserves better.
if you guys wanna help yourselves long-term, you should be doing everything in your power to net a happy, satisfied customer, not quoting warantee policy (which is below industry standard anyhow) and leaving folks holding the bag for your poor QC.
ie, stand behind your products!
ever heard of good faith?

[fastgto]

Hmmm, the B.G. Tech is on here responding to complaints, that is a hell of alot more than some outfits are doing. I give them lot`s of credit for doing so. It appears that they are trying to make things right. You can never please anybody 100% of the time.
I`m dam sure that Butlers, The Ken`s on either coast, SD, or many of the other standup honest good people have had some difficulty at some time in there dealings with the public. Yes I know it is how you handle the problem which makes a good or bad shop, but at least B.G. Tech is on here in full public view for everyone to see trying to work things out. Kudos to B.G. for at least trying to work out things. Most outfits would not even respond on a public website for the world to see.

[67 Lamnas]

Give 'em kudos if you want, but for me, I won't buy anything by BG for a long time to come....

SD Performance wouldn't let anything out the door with the kinds of defects and lack of quality that BG has had.....that's the difference.....

[fastgto]

Yes, I know that the SD people are fantastic, being Dave`s old partner I am well aware of how honest and what good decent folks they are. My point was B.G. seems to be
trying to work things out on a public forum yet. I`m sorry that things are not working out for you, I to hate it when things don`t arrive and work as they are supposed to.
Please don`t think I was trying to get you mad, as I wasn`t. They did fix the beef I had with them though.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

ron,
post up who the knobgobbler is who ratted you out so we know who to avoid helping out.
bg tech - c'mon, leaving it your vendors and WD's to do the right thing by the end customer is fully bogus.
people spending the kinda $ your products cost deserve better then that - every customer buying any part deserves better.
if you guys wanna help yourselves long-term, you should be doing everything in your power to net a happy, satisfied customer, not quoting warantee policy (which is below industry standard anyhow) and leaving folks holding the bag for your poor QC.
ie, stand behind your products!
ever heard of good faith?

We fully stand behind our products and have more than once offered to correct legitimate issues with the same. It also states in our warranty policy that the warranty is through us and we recommend the end user to send the product directly back to us for repair or replacement. We do not offer a money back warranty nor do other carburetor manufacturers. Looking on their websites last night they have the same stated policy as we do in that the part must be returned to them for repair or replacement. I'll again make the point that we are correcting under warranty issues brought forward on here well past the warranty period and to customers other than the original purchaser in some cases.I do not see this as "leaving folks holding the bag" . This is no different than what we do on a regular basis.We are car guys here as well and have our own projects and understand that you may purchase a part and not bolt it on for months. You may also never even take it out of the box to look at and we are more then accomodating in those situations.Each one has to be looked at on an individual basis.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by fastgto

Hmmm, the B.G. Tech is on here responding to complaints, that is a hell of alot more than some outfits are doing. I give them lot`s of credit for doing so. It appears that they are trying to make things right. You can never please anybody 100% of the time.
I`m dam sure that Butlers, The Ken`s on either coast, SD, or many of the other standup honest good people have had some difficulty at some time in there dealings with the public. Yes I know it is how you handle the problem which makes a good or bad shop, but at least B.G. Tech is on here in full public view for everyone to see trying to work things out. Kudos to B.G. for at least trying to work out things. Most outfits would not even respond on a public website for the world to see.

Thanks for the credit. We do strive to help as many customers as we can and monitoring the forums can sometimes be time consuming as we participate in several hundred. There can be times we dont notice a thread or get to answer a question on a timely basis but we do make an effort to do so like you stated. There are a lot of other manufacturers that are aware of the forums but choose to stay away from them. We are here for the long run and if any of you guys have an issue feel free to pm,call or email us. I know we were not able to satisfy Eric but we also get the opportunity to try and take care of a couple other guys with intake issues that we probably would have never known about.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by 67 Lamnas

Give 'em kudos if you want, but for me, I won't buy anything by BG for a long time to come....

SD Performance wouldn't let anything out the door with the kinds of defects and lack of quality that BG has had.....that's the difference.....

Not to take sides or pi$$ anyone off, but I'm seeing a discrepancy in the way people handle issues and not equally. OK, for certain companies but rules change for others?

Curious: Are you gonna do the same with a certain Pontiac vendor that hung certain people out to dry? They let defective products out the door and wouldn't handle issues.

BG is

#1: on the board answering complaints.
#2; working with people and businesses trying to handle issues.
#3: working within the warranty described in company policy.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by fastgto

Yes, I know that the SD people are fantastic, being Dave`s old partner I am well aware of how honest and what good decent folks they are. My point was B.G. seems to be
trying to work things out on a public forum yet. I`m sorry that things are not working out for you, I to hate it when things don`t arrive and work as they are supposed to.
Please don`t think I was trying to get you mad, as I wasn't. They did fix the beef I had with them though.

I agree. It's just more pronounced now-a-days with internet, more people doing their own work, higher population and mass production of higher end parts.
20 years ago we didn't have ALL these options.

People bought Holley carbs for 50 years, bi*tched and moaned about quality and issues, But Holley still makes em and people still buy em.

Hang in there BG tech. It's just the nature of the human race to trash one company when other options are out there, but if it's gender specific, the crowd goes MUTE.

[67 Lamnas]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Not to take sides or pi$$ anyone off, but I'm seeing a discrepancy in the way people handle issues and not equally. OK, for certain companies but rules change for others?

Curious: Are you gonna do the same with a certain Pontiac vendor that hung certain people out to dry? They let defective products out the door and wouldn't handle issues.

BG is

#1: on the board answering complaints.
#2; working with people and businesses trying to handle issues.
#3: working within the warranty described in company policy.

Yep.....I'm gonna do the same, and I didn't change any rules......

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by 67 Lamnas

Yep.....I'm gonna do the same, and I didn't change any rules......

I have no issues with people that apply the same rules to all deals that come their way.

[Pontirag]

Isn't the horse dead yet? poke it and see if it moves. This is turning into another butter block drama. Chrome plate it and move on or you both get a time out:)

[gto65lvr]

I have a sorta early idle ez 750 blow through carb never used yet out of warranty by date but never even bolted to an engine but will be in a couple months. How can I be assured it will be good. From what I hear it should be torn down and carefully measured and inspected.

Any chance of a warranty of some sort before it is used. I have read and even from you the carbs from that era or at least less than a year ago and older have had quality issues as well as many on different boards. They have taken them apart fixed issues and used them with success as they expected out of the box. I am building a 15k motor and really dont want to put a 550.00 carb on it only to find out it is needing to be gone through. I have heard alot about clearances and accuracy of some of the work on the metering blocks and what not. I also had a little bad luck with another 750 speed demon I bought and it still sits on the shelf.

[Pontirag]

keep it up and you'll spend recess with your heads on yer desk's. dont make me call home. yer luck you aint in catholic school!

[speedshopmike]

Originally Posted by Tech @ BG

We fully stand behind our products and have more than once offered to correct legitimate issues with the same. It also states in our warranty policy that the warranty is through us and we recommend the end user to send the product directly back to us for repair or replacement. We do not offer a money back warranty nor do other carburetor manufacturers. Looking on their websites last night they have the same stated policy as we do in that the part must be returned to them for repair or replacement. I'll again make the point that we are correcting under warranty issues brought forward on here well past the warranty period and to customers other than the original purchaser in some cases.I do not see this as "leaving folks holding the bag" . This is no different than what we do on a regular basis.We are car guys here as well and have our own projects and understand that you may purchase a part and not bolt it on for months. You may also never even take it out of the box to look at and we are more then accomodating in those situations.Each one has to be looked at on an individual basis.

let's look at a few facts here, not play footsie.
PLEASE READ MY ENTIRE DIATRIBE BEFORE GETTING UPSET OR REACTING:
first, on a personal basis, i'm glad to see you're here and standing up for your company, and communicating with the public, and i've no beef with you, BGT.

here's my reality and how BG policy's afected me as a retailer:
first - holley now offers a lifetime warranty on their avenger line of carbs.
this refutes your mention of like coverage among the big players.

second - i buy carbs thru WD's 99% of the time for convenience - if i have a defective holley or edelbrock carb from a customer guess what i do?
call it in, have a new carb waiting the next day for my customer (so he's happy) and return the bad carb and get credit for it immediately from my WD.(so i'm happy)
i never see it again nor have to worry about it.
holley now actually makes us fill out the warranty tag for returns, which takes 20 seconds.

that said, it's RARE, REAL DAMN RARE, that i get a bad carburetor from them.
and i know full well half of what i get back isn't actually bad but i know a replacement will: 1)shut the customer up and 2)prove his problem is elsewhere (ignition or fuel delivery issues) as i already likely explained to him.

in the case of my personal experience selling the few BG carbs i have, back when i was direct with BG and later with you-know-who as a distributor, i had a significant percentage of defects, and the return process was a contentious nightmare, and BG's attitude was basically that "our poop don't stink".
i got stuck a few times with carbs i waranteed for customers in good faith (hey, there's that word again) and got flat stuck with.
this is why i now absolutely refuse to sell your carbs to anyone, and why i mentioned above about others getting left holding the bag - it happened to me.
not being a summit or jegs-sized speedshop, i really can't afford to eat losses like that, so i've removed the potential for it to occur.
there are several MAJOR, MAJOR lines i no longer carry that had good profit margin due to various reasons; i don't suffer fools well.
you guys don't seem to understand what a damaged reputation's effects will be long term, especially with the instantnet working away.

i'll provide another very recent example of this sort of thing:
a customer ordered a crossflow aluminum radiator for an early A-body car, auto tranny.
the first one came in wrong dimension - customer's fault when measuring, no big deal.
got correct sized unit in, gave to customer.
the manufacturer (it's the big one who's NOT griffin) had done a very poor job assembling it; the trans cooler loop was actually hitting the rad core inside and wasn't properly lined up when the fittings were burned on, so the lines had to go in crooked (ugly, generally amateurish)
we exchanged it for another like unit after calling company and being told "impossible, we never **** up, every piece is checked 'fore it leaves".
ok, send me another, they did, and guess what? - exact same problem.
called them; they said "well, just try and retap the fittings so your lines will go in straight".
well, anyone who's ever tapped anything knows that won't fly, but we did anyway just to shut them up.
of course, it didn't help and we sent it back again for exchange.
customer is getting real pissed by this point as weeks are going by.
they promised to INSPECT and resend a third out right away.
one showed up.
with the exact same condition!
one can look right down the fill hole and see the loop smashed into the core; it's quite obvious to those with eyeballs.
given once bitten twice shy (ok, twice bitten, whatever) i ordered in a griffin unit, paid shipping outta pocket to help appease my customer, and it fit perfectly and everyone walked away happy except me, who had to eat 3 return shipping trips and was made to look bad because of bad product followed by uncaring, unhelpful service from those who caused the problem and repeated the same mistakes.
guess who's radiators i'll never sell again?
guess who's i'll sell every time?

i'd LOVE to see you guys kick major ass, as i'm extremely pro-american in general, and make an effort to sell as much usa-made product as possible and discourage customers away from imported parts when practical to do so, especially chinese stuff as it mostly is subpar still; they're improving all the time, however, so places like you gotta go the extra mile to keep customers happy.
so your 100% made in america concept scores big with me, excepting that the parts aren't turning out as people expect, and service has been, a least in the past, arrogant in nature and poor in quality.
i'm super happy you guys are working towards fixing these issues as claimed and wish you nothing but the best luck and utmost success as things hopefully improve.
my main point is your company and everbody in it should, for the time being, be doing anything even REMOTELY reasonable to yield a happy customer - if it means eating an intake, do it.
give up a new one, melt down the old one and pour more.

now for a thumbs up for BG - i think you guys produce the best rebuild kits on the market - i sell lots of 190003's and -4's, and they're complete, well done, and have nicer parts then holley provides in their kits, like your improved needle/seats, for example.
i've also found your regulators nice.
these are parts i proudly sell currently; point is i'm not anti-BG and this isn't an attack on you or them; it's a plea to make things better.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by gto65lvr

I have a sorta early idle ez 750 blow through carb never used yet out of warranty by date but never even bolted to an engine but will be in a couple months. How can I be assured it will be good. From what I hear it should be torn down and carefully measured and inspected.

Any chance of a warranty of some sort before it is used. I have read and even from you the carbs from that era or at least less than a year ago and older have had quality issues as well as many on different boards. They have taken them apart fixed issues and used them with success as they expected out of the box. I am building a 15k motor and really dont want to put a 550.00 carb on it only to find out it is needing to be gone through. I have heard alot about clearances and accuracy of some of the work on the metering blocks and what not. I also had a little bad luck with another 750 speed demon I bought and it still sits on the shelf.

If you want to send it back we will be glad to put it on the bench and check it. In regards to some of the earlier issues mentioned , a lot of them never caused any problems but were visual. If a carburetor gasket has small particles of metal on it they are sandwiched between the surfaces and don't go anywhere. Customers would see this and think they were floating throughout the carburetor but if you stop to think about it for a minute there is no fuel in that area as it is sealed so that was done during assembly.That was one of the main issues addressed. If you search any carburetor manufacturer you will find plenty of threads about how bad their products are and rarely hear about the ones who like them,thats just the nature of the internet. We saw a thread on a site the other day entitled "Holley vs Edelbrock vs Demon, which do you like" and knew right away there would be both good and bad posted about everyone. Bottom line is that we are hear and we do listen to what everyone has to say. When issues are brought out on sites such as this we track them and look to see if there is a problem that can be corrected.

[Mr. P-Body]

Mike,

Very well stated. Thanks from all of us that are trying to provide high quality and high performance to our products!

BGT,

While most of us understand your problem, and BTW, I also applaud you for standing up and at least saying SOMETHING (Pop used to say: "Even if it's wrong, do SOMETHING!"), we really need to explain the "Pontiac World" to you. It's simply not big enough for you to spout off warranty info like a lawyer, and point fingers at customers in an open forum. Very bad form... While it may "cover you" in court, it alienates potential customers. If they're looking for a product and hear or read this, they WILL shy away from you, fearing the same kind of treatment.

Most of us (smaller Pontiac "shops") have made our presence by offering good products and standing behind them, even if the customer may be at fault. CVMS (our shop) has been in business for 7 years. In that time, we've had three catestrophic failures. Two Pontiacs and a Chevy BB. We average about 25 engines a year, half of which are Pontiacs. Of those three, only one was refused warranty repairs, as he (the customer) was less than honest with his report on the problems. He also skewed the damage to make it look like he wasn't at fault. Overheating engines are NOT the responsibility of the machine shop, but the customer's. That's what guages are for... Checking ANY "rebuilder's" warranty spells that out clearly. The other two were repaired and the customers were satisfied. We STILL tried to work with him, but he simply wasn't receptive. We move on...

The point? Only the annointed few can get away with shunning certain customers while taking care of others. Based on the past, your company has some serious damage control to do if you're to "survive" in the Pontiac market. We also understand the Pontiac is NOT your focus, but we spend money, too! I suggest you take a little more cooperative attitude, even if you perceive yourself to be "right". Don't "take it in the shorts", but don't deny claims based on such obvious issues as debris inside the carb. Regardless of how long or "why", it's NOT the customer's problem OR responsibility. While big corporations can get away with it, not here!

PAX

Jim

[67 Lamnas]

Pontirag??? Insert here....

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body

Only the annointed few can get away with shunning certain customers while taking care of others.

Jim

Ain't that amazing. ;) ;)

Seems to be a Double Standard ????? in the Pontiac Kingdom.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

let's look at a few facts here, not play footsie.
PLEASE READ MY ENTIRE DIATRIBE BEFORE GETTING UPSET OR REACTING:
first, on a personal basis, i'm glad to see you're here and standing up for your company, and communicating with the public, and i've no beef with you, BGT.

here's my reality and how BG policy's afected me as a retailer:
first - holley now offers a lifetime warranty on their avenger line of carbs.
this refutes your mention of like coverage among the big players.

second - i buy carbs thru WD's 99% of the time for convenience - if i have a defective holley or edelbrock carb from a customer guess what i do?
call it in, have a new carb waiting the next day for my customer (so he's happy) and return the bad carb and get credit for it immediately from my WD.(so i'm happy)
i never see it again nor have to worry about it.
holley now actually makes us fill out the warranty tag for returns, which takes 20 seconds.

that said, it's RARE, REAL DAMN RARE, that i get a bad carburetor from them.
and i know full well half of what i get back isn't actually bad but i know a replacement will: 1)shut the customer up and 2)prove his problem is elsewhere (ignition or fuel delivery issues) as i already likely explained to him.

in the case of my personal experience selling the few BG carbs i have, back when i was direct with BG and later with you-know-who as a distributor, i had a significant percentage of defects, and the return process was a contentious nightmare, and BG's attitude was basically that "our poop don't stink".
i got stuck a few times with carbs i waranteed for customers in good faith (hey, there's that word again) and got flat stuck with.
this is why i now absolutely refuse to sell your carbs to anyone, and why i mentioned above about others getting left holding the bag - it happened to me.
not being a summit or jegs-sized speedshop, i really can't afford to eat losses like that, so i've removed the potential for it to occur.
there are several MAJOR, MAJOR lines i no longer carry that had good profit margin due to various reasons; i don't suffer fools well.
you guys don't seem to understand what a damaged reputation's effects will be long term, especially with the instantnet working away.

i'll provide another very recent example of this sort of thing:
a customer ordered a crossflow aluminum radiator for an early A-body car, auto tranny.
the first one came in wrong dimension - customer's fault when measuring, no big deal.
got correct sized unit in, gave to customer.
the manufacturer (it's the big one who's NOT griffin) had done a very poor job assembling it; the trans cooler loop was actually hitting the rad core inside and wasn't properly lined up when the fittings were burned on, so the lines had to go in crooked (ugly, generally amateurish)
we exchanged it for another like unit after calling company and being told "impossible, we never **** up, every piece is checked 'fore it leaves".
ok, send me another, they did, and guess what? - exact same problem.
called them; they said "well, just try and retap the fittings so your lines will go in straight".
well, anyone who's ever tapped anything knows that won't fly, but we did anyway just to shut them up.
of course, it didn't help and we sent it back again for exchange.
customer is getting real pissed by this point as weeks are going by.
they promised to INSPECT and resend a third out right away.
one showed up.
with the exact same condition!
one can look right down the fill hole and see the loop smashed into the core; it's quite obvious to those with eyeballs.
given once bitten twice shy (ok, twice bitten, whatever) i ordered in a griffin unit, paid shipping outta pocket to help appease my customer, and it fit perfectly and everyone walked away happy except me, who had to eat 3 return shipping trips and was made to look bad because of bad product followed by uncaring, unhelpful service from those who caused the problem and repeated the same mistakes.
guess who's radiators i'll never sell again?
guess who's i'll sell every time?

i'd LOVE to see you guys kick major ass, as i'm extremely pro-american in general, and make an effort to sell as much usa-made product as possible and discourage customers away from imported parts when practical to do so, especially chinese stuff as it mostly is subpar still; they're improving all the time, however, so places like you gotta go the extra mile to keep customers happy.
so your 100% made in america concept scores big with me, excepting that the parts aren't turning out as people expect, and service has been, a least in the past, arrogant in nature and poor in quality.
i'm super happy you guys are working towards fixing these issues as claimed and wish you nothing but the best luck and utmost success as things hopefully improve.
my main point is your company and everbody in it should, for the time being, be doing anything even REMOTELY reasonable to yield a happy customer - if it means eating an intake, do it.
give up a new one, melt down the old one and pour more.

now for a thumbs up for BG - i think you guys produce the best rebuild kits on the market - i sell lots of 190003's and -4's, and they're complete, well done, and have nicer parts then holley provides in their kits, like your improved needle/seats, for example.
i've also found your regulators nice.
these are parts i proudly sell currently; point is i'm not anti-BG and this isn't an attack on you or them; it's a plea to make things better.

Not upset and I did read over it several times.I'm going to post a reply but wont continue to argue this as you are trying to tie together the relationship and workings of the dealer to the wd as the relationship of the end user to the manufacturer. We are a small company about 1/10 th the size of Holley or Edelbrock and when zinc went to 2.50 a pound we continued at our financial peril [ we lost our butts] to buy U.S. certified zinc when our competitors did not. We cannot afford the Wal-mart type mentality and policies because we do not have the business base to afford such. As a reminder here are a couple of links relating to the offshore zinc problems. Returning parts for credit knowing there are no problems in affect raises the price to the end user and costs everyone more money to enjoy their cars.We receive every Jegs carburetor return and the percentage of these to the percentage they purchase is less than 2%. In regards to the "just melt it" comment, there is more than just material costs involved such as machine time and labor and once again this would be a non-warranty item that the other end users would end up absorbing the cost on. As usual, we are on here to help those that need us to.

http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/r...spx?id=070045T

http://www.holley.com/HolleyNews/Vol...r%20Recall.asp