[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body

Mike,

Very well stated. Thanks from all of us that are trying to provide high quality and high performance to our products!

BGT,

While most of us understand your problem, and BTW, I also applaud you for standing up and at least saying SOMETHING (Pop used to say: "Even if it's wrong, do SOMETHING!"), we really need to explain the "Pontiac World" to you. It's simply not big enough for you to spout off warranty info like a lawyer, and point fingers at customers in an open forum. Very bad form... While it may "cover you" in court, it alienates potential customers. If they're looking for a product and hear or read this, they WILL shy away from you, fearing the same kind of treatment.

Most of us (smaller Pontiac "shops") have made our presence by offering good products and standing behind them, even if the customer may be at fault. CVMS (our shop) has been in business for 7 years. In that time, we've had three catestrophic failures. Two Pontiacs and a Chevy BB. We average about 25 engines a year, half of which are Pontiacs. Of those three, only one was refused warranty repairs, as he (the customer) was less than honest with his report on the problems. He also skewed the damage to make it look like he wasn't at fault. Overheating engines are NOT the responsibility of the machine shop, but the customer's. That's what guages are for... Checking ANY "rebuilder's" warranty spells that out clearly. The other two were repaired and the customers were satisfied. We STILL tried to work with him, but he simply wasn't receptive. We move on...

The point? Only the annointed few can get away with shunning certain customers while taking care of others. Based on the past, your company has some serious damage control to do if you're to "survive" in the Pontiac market. We also understand the Pontiac is NOT your focus, but we spend money, too! I suggest you take a little more cooperative attitude, even if you perceive yourself to be "right". Don't "take it in the shorts", but don't deny claims based on such obvious issues as debris inside the carb. Regardless of how long or "why", it's NOT the customer's problem OR responsibility. While big corporations can get away with it, not here!

PAX

Jim

Jim,
I think the point being missed here as well as everyone else taking the "deny" or "refuse" claims avenue is that we have not refused nor denied. We did indeed TRY to work with Eric on his manifold but after He ground all over the surface would only have been happy with a new one. We did bring it back and re-machine some of the areas he had ground on. We also tried to help the appearence at no cost to him .Our situation with him seems no different to me than the one you described with your customer so why are we any different?The customer who claimed debris wanted a cash refund, he did not want warranty. As I have stated over and over we are more than happy to look at any warranty concern a customer has and if it is a defect we will make the decison as to whether to repair or replace it. I keep restating, we even give customers who are not even the original purchaser this same benefit. Try that with some of the others and see where it gets you.We openly admit there are issues but we try to give the customer the best quality product as well.

[Tech @ BG]

Posted earlier this morning....

"Quote:
Originally Posted by gto65lvr
I have a sorta early idle ez 750 blow through carb never used yet out of warranty by date but never even bolted to an engine but will be in a couple months. How can I be assured it will be good. From what I hear it should be torn down and carefully measured and inspected.

Any chance of a warranty of some sort before it is used. I have read and even from you the carbs from that era or at least less than a year ago and older have had quality issues as well as many on different boards. They have taken them apart fixed issues and used them with success as they expected out of the box. I am building a 15k motor and really dont want to put a 550.00 carb on it only to find out it is needing to be gone through. I have heard alot about clearances and accuracy of some of the work on the metering blocks and what not. I also had a little bad luck with another 750 speed demon I bought and it still sits on the shelf. "


our reply earlier....
"If you want to send it back we will be glad to put it on the bench and check it."

[Tech @ BG]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAJ7395
All, I called BG tech support and explained that I had an early manifold and wanted it reworked to production specs. They gave me a return authorizaton number and said to ship just the intake back in the seperate box that it was packaged in. I opened the big box for the first time, removed the intake box, and shipped it on 01/16/2008. I'll report on what happens.

I never opened the carb boxes but (to address the previous threads) I will take them over to a buddies carb shop and we'll open the boxes, remove the air horns, and inspect the fuel bowls for debris. That way it's not just my word for it.

Rob

Rob, We received your intake and it should be shipping back out to you today so with any luck you will have it back before the weekend.
__________________
Thank you,

Technical Support

Barry Grant, Inc.

BG Fuel System, Demon Carburetors, Nitrous Works, Rush Filters

www.barrygrant.com

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Different issue but........... how many people have sent back their Victor or Performer intake to Edelbrock for a refund or have them cut it .120 or so because it didn't fit?
I don't think anyone.

But people are still buying Edelbrock products.

[Mr_GTO]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

Different issue but........... how many people have sent back their Victor or Performer intake to Edelbrock for a refund or have them cut it .120 or so because it didn't fit?
I don't think anyone.

But people are still buying Edelbrock products.

Not just that but how about testing each piece that goes out the door to make sure it doesn't have to be returned. I can't imagine that BG sells enough Pontiac 6Shooters(At $2500 a pop) to say that they can't check and test each and every one.

[eric65]

We did indeed TRY to work with Eric on his manifold but after He ground all over the surface would only have been happy with a new one. We did bring it back and re-machine some of the areas he had ground on. We also tried to help the appearence at no cost to him

Until my dying breath will state that the BG TEch (believe it was a Steve) in a "not so friendly tone" (dont know how to explain his helpfullness or lack thereof) told me I could grind it down or send it back for them too. Period!!!!! If BG TEch Steve tells me on the phone in no case should you attemp this I would have not. Remember this was before I took off grinding all over it!!! Being a bit hard-headded about already having it back there once I though what the heck maybe like he says I can do it without the hassle of the return. He definetly was not accomidating about me sending it back again in our phone conversation.

I did grind too far then after trying myself in an attemp to even the finish.

Another point; It is not that my manifold in now un-useable.. It is certainally useable and will flow like a new one, I just have to work my arse off to get it to look uniform and consistent in finish aspect! Which I just didnt think would take this amount of work when I first tried it at BG Tech Steve's response... So yes I am frustrated...this was an expensive deal. But is not completely broke. I just wanted it to look like a new one. It will still look good I believe when I'm done polishing it.

This kind of goes on and on and its good of Tech BG to answer all here and commend him for that, but I dont want the point lost that in my case only, I did contact them before I did my screw-up and did get that answer to 'What do I do now as this don't fit'... Peroid

I just dont want that part of this to get lost in the thread of what Eric did to his manifold..

Thanks all
Eric

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by Mr_GTO

Not just that but how about testing each piece that goes out the door to make sure it doesn't have to be returned. I can't imagine that BG sells enough Pontiac 6Shooters(At $2500 a pop) to say that they can't check and test each and every one.

The only intakes with issues are the early run which were machined by an outside vendor for us to which we supplied an engine and they were supposed to be checking for us. Until the problem was brought to our attention we were not aware of it. Once it came to light, as already mentioned we moved this process in house and have not had fitment issues since.WE are also checking the intakes now to make sure they fit and since moving this in house have not had any machining related fitment complaints.You guys are hashing over and over issues that have already been addressed and corrected and that we have stated in THIS thread have corrected. We have had a couple of calls since stating they dont fit and in both cases it was determined they were trying to use the pre 64 valley pan that doesn't have the slots in the runner area. We also had a guy send one of the old ones back[not from this forum] that he said would not fit and we bolted it directly onto the engine with no problem. Keep in mind that if the heads or intake has been cut the fit would be no different than anybody elses intake.

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by eric65

Until my dying breath will state that the BG TEch (believe it was a Steve) in a "not so friendly tone" (dont know how to explain his helpfullness or lack thereof) told me I could grind it down or send it back for them too. Period!!!!! If BG TEch Steve tells me on the phone in no case should you attemp this I would have not. Remember this was before I took off grinding all over it!!! Being a bit hard-headded about already having it back there once I though what the heck maybe like he says I can do it without the hassle of the return. He definetly was not accomidating about me sending it back again in our phone conversation.

I did grind too far then after trying myself in an attemp to even the finish.

Another point; It is not that my manifold in now un-useable.. It is certainally useable and will flow like a new one, I just have to work my arse off to get it to look uniform and consistent in finish aspect! Which I just didnt think would take this amount of work when I first tried it at BG Tech Steve's response... So yes I am frustrated...this was an expensive deal. But is not completely broke. I just wanted it to look like a new one. It will still look good I believe when I'm done polishing it.

This kind of goes on and on and its good of Tech BG to answer all here and commend him for that, but I dont want the point lost that in my case only, I did contact them before I did my screw-up and did get that answer to 'What do I do now as this don't fit'... Peroid

I just dont want that part of this to get lost in the thread of what Eric did to his manifold..

Thanks all
Eric

Eric,
We are not discounting the fact you were told you could modify it or we would. That has also been documented in this thread. In my conversations with you on the phone I have never said ,well I dont believe he told you that nor have I posted on here I didn't. I infact gave 2 of my customers in Florida the same option and they elected to do this themselves and were happy with the outcome. There is also another member on this board who modified a couple of their own as well. All of these from the first run.I also do not discount the fact he may not have been the friendliest on the phone and apologize for that but as you know both him and his supervisor are no longer with the company.

[speedshopmike]

BG as a company appears to be moving in a positive diection, and i again applaud them for being 100% american-made.
i think my main point is being overlooked, though.
tech, you mentioned you guys are 10% the size of holley/edelbrock.
point taken.
the converse of that is it's that much more critical to ensure every customer is happy, as there won't be a million more lined up and ready to buy.
i'm aware my comment about melting down and repouring doesnt cover labor costs/machine time.
that's where you guys need to step up and absorb these initial costs to obtain a good reputation for your future success.
it costs money to make money, and doing right, in full, by customers is the ONLY way to succeed in a small business, automotive or otherwise.
happy customers spend more money.
more money earned gives the means to bring new product to market and to properly service those FEW with problems so they walk away happy.
you guys get good press from the magazines and tv shows and have interesting and unique components available with potential for great success, but the follow-through is still critical in the end.
i'm not trying to rehash and come down on you - am trying to stress customer satisfaction is all that matters in the big picture.

i again note i personally wish BG continues improving and does well; it's good for everyone to have more choices and the opportunity to buy American.

[Rugratman]

They just don't seem to get it.......

O.K. from a business perspective......
In my instance, what would it have cost you to refund my money if I sent back the carb? Never run, or started.
$0.00 as I would have had to pay shipping, and you would have the carb back, and since minor shaving and sand are no big deal according you guy's...less the labor to put it on a truck and box it the first time..... But under a repair, you would need to rebox it and reship it, so it's a wash. Not to mention BG's cost of the repair.

Now how much business have you lost with this thread? And my explanation to everyone who asks me about a Demon? Times the amount people who have the same story.........$
I wanted to send it back, because of poor workmanship. Period. Sand and shavings still in the bowl, mean it was never inspected, tested, etc.....Remember it's supposed to be good out of the box, right?
This is the last time, I rehash this here. You lost a customer for life. Add that into the bottom line equation.
If I had order the wrong carb, or dropped it, completely different story.
The business world has gotten much smaller with the web, word travels fast.

[Pontirag]

Oh alright....

here goes....

Mr P-Body, Sir,

I disagree with your statement " Only the annointed can get away with shunning customers" After all. Look what happend to Jesus.

[RAJ7395]

UPDATE: Got my 6 shooter intake back from BG today.

I sent it 01/16/2008 and got it back the 01/30/2008. I think that is a very reasonable turn around time in my book. Additionally, the BG Tech service person that I spoke to was professional and BG paid for shipping both ways. (Thumbs Up)

I inspected the rework done to the manifold and as expected it now has spot facing around all the manifold to bolt heads. (Thumbs up)

I inspected the threaded carb bolt holes and found one curly piece of metal in the front carb stud hole that is on forward most and left hand side. Picked it out of the hole with a pair of tweezers and the threads were fine. (Not a big deal)

I also noticed a piece of thread like material lodged in the rear carb stud hole on the front left hand side. I carefully picked out all the loose debris with the same tweezeres and ended up with a little pile of shavings. once the shavings where removed it appears that most of the threads are missing from one side of the tapped hole. For aluminium, you need at least 2 times the thread diameter to make a good bolted joint and I would say that there's only about 1/4" of threads left at the bottom of the hole.

Tech BG - what's the next step?

[RAJ7395]

The rest

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

UPDATE: Got my 6 shooter intake back from BG today.

I sent it 01/16/2008 and got it back the 01/30/2008. I think that is a very reasonable turn around time in my book. Additionally, the BG Tech service person that I spoke to was professional and BG paid for shipping both ways. (Thumbs Up)

I inspected the rework done to the manifold and as expected it now has spot facing around all the manifold to bolt heads. (Thumbs up)

I inspected the threaded carb bolt holes and found one curly piece of metal in the front carb stud hole that is on forward most and left hand side. Picked it out of the hole with a pair of tweezers and the threads were fine. (Not a big deal)

I also noticed a piece of thread like material lodged in the rear carb stud hole on the front left hand side. I carefully picked out all the loose debris with the same tweezeres and ended up with a little pile of shavings. once the shavings where removed it appears that most of the threads are missing from one side of the tapped hole. For aluminium, you need at least 2 times the thread diameter to make a good bolted joint and I would say that there's only about 1/4" of threads left at the bottom of the hole.

Tech BG - what's the next step?

No excuses on our end and apparently that hole missed inspection. Looks like the cnc must have gaulded in it. You have a pm and we will replace that intake.We appreciate your patience through this.

[speedshopmike]

rugrat, i'll adress your question and take a gamble it's the correct answer:
for BG to refund your money will cost them extra.
why? - they didnt sell it to you, a retailer did.
that retailer bought it for, say, 25% less then you paid for it.
so BG'd be taking a hit on someone else's profit margin, which really isnt fair to them.
however, your retailer could/should refund your money on a new return, whcih will then go back to BG and they'll credit the retailer.
said retailer will be pissed and give BG a tongue-lashing (like i've done here many times)
assuming you bought it from summit/jegs, who are the biggest retailers of most all speed parts, they'll eventually be able (in a perfect world) to apply enough influence on BG as a manufacturer to improve their QC or they'll stop selling BG parts (as i have) will result in BG ultimately failing as a business if it continues.
as BGtech noted, pretty much no manufacturers offer a money-back guarantee.

that all said, i agree with you that in this case, this company doesn't seem to have the managerial vision to see how harmful this bad publicity is to them in the big picture.
they appear to not realize this newfangled interweb forum thing will be freely visible to anyone who looks, forever (or until al gore uninvents the web)

my advice for you specifically is contact the place you bought it from and try and return it, even if only for store credit against other purchases.

[Rugratman]

But, wouldn't Summit/Jeg's/Small local retailer be out the profit...Not BG? They got the product back.

I thought Summit quit selling BG carbs anyway, maybe this is the reason why, Just like you did.
Maybe BG tech should switch over to the inspections dept. They obviously need alot of help there.....he seems pretty smart, and probably doesn't need this grief.
I feel for RAJ.....it alot of money, so even with a defective REPAIRED product, is still not entitled to a full refund now? Who know's if the next intake will be right either. I would have bet they would have walked his intake thru with great care after this thread.

Imagine this is a week before the Pontiac Nationals, He would be up a creek right now.
I said it a few pages back.
All talk........ you guy's should have seen my carb when I got it, I wish I had taken pictures of it.
Good Luck Guy's.

[speedshopmike]

if you bought from a retailer and got $ back from BG they'd be taking it on the chin which is why they dont do that.
return it to your retailer and everyboy walks fair and square.
retailer eats the profit but doesn't lose actual money, BG eats the carb but not any $ except for the carb's cost to them.
given they'll presumably repair and resell it's fair to all.

how have you been?
i moved the shop about 6 months ago up to the front of the mall next to chicken basket; drop by and say hi if you're around.
-mike

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by Rugratman

But, wouldn't Summit/Jeg's/Small local retailer be out the profit...Not BG? They got the product back.

I thought Summit quit selling BG carbs anyway, maybe this is the reason why, Just like you did.
Maybe BG tech should switch over to the inspections dept. They obviously need alot of help there.....he seems pretty smart, and probably doesn't need this grief.
I feel for RAJ.....it alot of money, so even with a defective REPAIRED product, is still not entitled to a full refund now? Who know's if the next intake will be right either. I would have bet they would have walked his intake thru with great care after this thread.

Imagine this is a week before the Pontiac Nationals, He would be up a creek right now.
I said it a few pages back.
All talk........ you guy's should have seen my carb when I got it, I wish I had taken pictures of it.
Good Luck Guy's.

Barry Grant Inc. closed Summit's account due to their overly liberal return policy that resulted in their returns being 10 times the national average of our other 440 distributors including the other large stores. Continuation of this would have caused Barry Grant Inc. to have to raise the prices to everyone else. In regards to RAJ hopefully we have him fixed up and I spoke with him earlier today and advised him we sent a replacement out next day air so he will have it tomorrow. This is a new intake,not a repaired one so this will get him back to new.

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

I'd make it my quest to find this person and break all his/fingers and thumbs...for starters.
People have been killed for stuff like that.

:mad:

Sad to say i've heard NOTHING good about B.G. customer service in last 5 yrs.
I've had a couple new carbs, and had to go through'm.
Clean'm and fix minor stuff.
But worked good afterwards.
Have one now that is giving me prob's.

Have to eat my words.
BG Tech contacted me and took the time to make sure i had everything set correctly in the carb i was having issues with.
We conversed back and forth several times over a week or two cause i couldnt work on carb every night.
Believe problem is solved.
Find out for sure this summer when romp'n round town.

Thanks BG tech.

:thumbup:

[Tech @ BG]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Have to eat my words.
BG Tech contacted me and took the time to make sure i had everything set correctly in the carb i was having issues with.
We conversed back and forth several times over a week or two cause i couldnt work on carb every night.
Believe problem is solved.
Find out for sure this summer when romp'n round town.

Thanks BG tech.

:thumbup:

Thanks Region Warrior,
Let us know how it works out and if you need anything else we'll be here.