[costpenn]

I have started the work restoring my Dad's 77 W72 he bought new which I recently bought back after being lost for over 30 years. Going to have lots of questions of all you guys - a few previous posts of mine were so well answered I'm hoping for more.

1) When my Dad bought it, I distinctly remembered him telling our salesman - named Stan Cash- that he wanted a cassette player in it. I also remember sitting on the hump on the back seat and seeing the radio just like the one in the pic attached. I know the 77's had the smaller radio hole in the dash than the 78's, and that the cassette player was not offered in 1977. This car is a last week of May 77 build - can you get the radio in the picture in the 77 dash without cutting it up? And was the cassette player offered in other Pontiacs the dealer might have got it from to meet my Dad's request?
2) Also can you tell from the list from PHS (pictured) if the car had one or two speakers in the back? It still had the OE speaker wiring in the back across the package tray area, but it only went to the LH speaker.

3) Compounding all this, the car was equipped with the CB radio option. Did the sound from the CB come through the audio system or just out of the unit?

4) Unbelievably, the car still had the OE CB radio in it when I bought it back. I found an NOS unit while looking for an OEM CB radio antenna, but nada on the antenna or antenna lead which someone had cut right at the trunk. Anyone have a source for either?

[Warren Seale]

The Delco radio/cassette player was available in 78 in the Firebird and other models. It might have been offered in other models in 77. The one you have is the newer version that was phased in during the 79 model year. The primary difference between the two is that the later version has both fast forward and rewind. The older version only has fast forward.

I can't comment on the CB player. The one you show in the photo looks like a dealer installed accessory.

[burd]

I had the whole Cb set up, sat around a long time, Iim done buy them, no one really wants the stuff, it did sell in Dayton, I asked 2 people who might have one, ,if anyone has one I’ll pm you.
In the 78 GM manual, it shows mounting the CB, and antenna.
I also have a bulletin telling about the dealers installing them.

[bhill86]

I can’t say for sure but doubt you can fit the later radio in the earlier dash. Otherwise why would GM redesign the dash? The bezels are certainly different. It may be possible with cutting. Could it be possible what was installed in your dad’s car was aftermarket?

As for the speakers 77 got one rear only. Never two from the factory.

I’lm not overly familiar with the GM CB option of 77 but based on radio/8track wiring I’m familiar with I don’t believe CB audio came through radio speakers

[costpenn]

Originally Posted by bhill86

I can’t say for sure but doubt you can fit the later radio in the earlier dash. Otherwise why would GM redesign the dash? The bezels are certainly different. It may be possible with cutting. Could it be possible what was installed in your dad’s car was aftermarket?

As for the speakers 77 got one rear only. Never two from the factory.

I’lm not overly familiar with the GM CB option of 77 but based on radio/8track wiring I’m familiar with I don’t believe CB audio came through radio speakers

Thank you for the info on the reat speaker. Was it mounted on the driver's side?. And thinking about it if I recall correctly the CB sound was not coming through the radio. I remember Dad talking to others with the radio off.

[costpenn]

Originally Posted by Warren Seale

The Delco radio/cassette player was available in 78 in the Firebird and other models. It might have been offered in other models in 77. The one you have is the newer version that was phased in during the 79 model year. The primary difference between the two is that the later version has both fast forward and rewind. The older version only has fast forward.

I can't comment on the CB player. The one you show in the photo looks like a dealer installed accessory.

Hello - thank you for your response. The CB was a pretty rare option in 77. In the photo of the old one out of the car, you can see the bracket that held it in the map pocket slot in the console.

[bhill86]

Yes the rear speaker was on the drivers side. And you’re right about the CB being rare. Congrats on having it still

[Warren Seale]

The two rear speakers began in 79. The right side speaker had a baffle box attached to it. I still have that box but don't use it.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Warren Seale

The two rear speakers began in 79. The right side speaker had a baffle box attached to it. I still have that box but don't use it.

Are you sure the stereo (2 rear speakers) started in 79? Ive owned 78 TAs that had what looked like factory stereo speakers in the rear and a GM stereo cassette radio... unless that was dealer added.

[bhill86]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Are you sure the stereo (2 rear speakers) started in 79? Ive owned 78 TAs that had what looked like factory stereo speakers in the rear and a GM stereo cassette radio... unless that was dealer added.

78 manual shows front and rear speaker only so must have been a dealer add on.

I’m not sure if 2 rear began in 79 or not. The manual supplement doesn’t specify which suggests it was the same as 78.

I believe 80 was the first year with dual from speakers so it’s possible dual rear also began then

[78w72]

I found options info that shows 1978 stereo am/fm & stereo am/fm/cassette radios which had to use 2 rear speakers for 2 channel stereo.

1980-81 were the only 2 years with dual front speakers, but dual rear were available in 1978.

Edit- this 1978 UPC code list shows dual speaker option UP8, standard with all stereo radios.

https://tran-zam.com/fhistory/1978Options.aspx

[bhill86]

Do you have a link or pic of the info by chance? Thats interesting.

[DanC]

My all original 1978 Espirt has the AM/FM/Stereo 8 Track combo with one center dash speaker and one LH (driver side) rear deck speaker. It also has the smooth "cardboard" shelf panel with one metal speaker grille.

I attached a couple pics with measurements that may help for size. I also added a pic of the 1978 Service Manual showing the radio/stereo wiring which shows one front and one rear speaker for stereo applications as "factory". Of course a dealer or individual could have done anything!

[Maxthe222]

Hey again Joe,

Glad you're back ontop of this super unique T/A, and to answer all of your questions:

1. Not possible to get for a 1977. From factory, the radio hole in the dash was a completely different shape, it became shorter and fatter in 1978, and your PHS identifies the factory issued stereo was a U58 AM/FM Stereo, sometimes called the Red Dot Stereo (pictured below). The 1977 UN8 23 Channel CB was connected to this stereo, and is not compatible with the 1978+ style stereos.

cdn4.volusion.store/klmat-yytxn/v/vspfiles/photos/DAS-2522F-2.jpg?v-cache=1477632079

2. Single, dual rear speakers from factory wasn't a think until 1979. A good example is the 14-mile '77 SE that sold at auction, peep the rear parcel tray: gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/1977-Pontiac-Trans-Am-SE-interior-003-Mecum-Auctions-Starlight-Black-door-panel-seats-console-back-seat.jpg

3. As the CB was hooked up to the stereo and was completely buried in the dash, I wanna say through the rear speaker? I still have one UN8 23-channel CB, don't see how audio can come out of it.

4. I had a complete, original entire set up from a 1977 T/A that was scrapped, and sold everything (including that original special console bracket in your pic) and the original antenna and harness to a collector in the US. I can ask if he still has it, he didn't actually have a UN8 '77 from what I remember.

[bhill86]

Hey Max, long time no talk lol. I’ll admit ive never handled a factory CB but based on my reading of the service manual it doesn’t appear that the console mounted CB connects to the stereo in any way. Here’s the excerpt from the manual.

[Maxthe222]

Originally Posted by 78w72

I found options info that shows 1978 stereo am/fm & stereo am/fm/cassette radios which had to use 2 rear speakers for 2 channel stereo.

1980-81 were the only 2 years with dual front speakers, but dual rear were available in 1978.

Edit- this 1978 UPC code list shows dual speaker option UP8, standard with all stereo radios.

https://tran-zam.com/fhistory/1978Options.aspx

There's a bit of confusion on this, and someone had corrected me when I said the same thing. UP8 on a 1978 buildsheet actually reads as: "UP8 RAD PROVI STE"

What does this mean? I have no idea, but it's got something to do with a mono radio having the provisions for stereo radio? Hopefully someone else has more information. But apparently it wasn't dual rear speakers until 1979, which was then changed to being a 4-speaker set up for a mono radio in 1980-81

[Maxthe222]

Originally Posted by bhill86

Hey Max, long time no talk lol. I’ll admit ive never handled a factory CB but based on my reading of the service manual it doesn’t appear that the console mounted CB connects to the stereo in any way. Here’s the excerpt from the manual.

NVM there's a speaker on the bottom of mine lol, but it has 4 connectors, PA, EXT SP, antenna, and the power input. I thought the PA or the EXT connected to the Stereo, the complete unit I had i'm certain that had a harness between the two. I thought the EXT SP denoted external speaker? As in, it connected to the stereo, and either patched into the rear speaker, or cancelled out the output from the stereo when in use.

[bhill86]

From my experience many if not all CBs had an external speaker output to do just that, connect an external speaker rather than use the integrated

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Maxthe222

There's a bit of confusion on this, and someone had corrected me when I said the same thing. UP8 on a 1978 buildsheet actually reads as: "UP8 RAD PROVI STE"

What does this mean? I have no idea, but it's got something to do with a mono radio having the provisions for stereo radio? Hopefully someone else has more information. But apparently it wasn't dual rear speakers until 1979, which was then changed to being a 4-speaker set up for a mono radio in 1980-81

I dont know for sure what the UPC UP8 means for 78 but the chart I showed is pretty clear its for dual rear speakers in 1978. maybe the UP8 RAD PROVI STE means provisions for stereo radios which would be dual rear speakers &/or the wiring for a stereo radio? If there wasnt dual rear speakers in 78, how did they do the stereo left/right separation for stereo radios that were available, left to the rear speaker & right to the front? Doesnt make much sense to do that with a stereo signal IMO.

Im almost positive my old 78 WS6 W72 TA I bought in the late 80's from the 2nd owner, who was my close friend that bought it from the original owner when I was there, and it was a lower mile mostly original car that had dual rear speakers with the factory metal grilles & package tray... but that was a long time ago. Have also seen lots of 78's with dual rear speakers... not saying they couldnt have been added after the sale with dealer sold factory parts but most Ive seen have them.

Also there is a hole on the right side rear deck metal for a 2nd speaker even in older pre 78 cars so its very easy to add a 2nd rear 6x9 speaker for a stereo radio... & lets face it, the factory radios in these cars were terrible, I have a factory stereo cassette & dual rear speakers in my current 78, cant stand to listen to it, sounds like a old transistor radio!

[costpenn]

Originally Posted by bhill86

Hey Max, long time no talk lol. I’ll admit ive never handled a factory CB but based on my reading of the service manual it doesn’t appear that the console mounted CB connects to the stereo in any way. Here’s the excerpt from the manual.

There is external speaker connectors on my units, but they are for a RCA jack type connection. Thank you for this documentation Brian!