#1  
Old 11-17-2020, 12:46 AM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default Indicators not cancelling

Hi All,
The indicators on my '73 Formula (with non tilt steering wheel) don't cancel, so I bought the green non tilt cancelling cam and took it to my auto electrician to fit it. He reported that he couldn't fit it as it seems to be the wrong one. The round section that juts out with the 2 locator lugs on it is not long enough for some reason.

So, any thoughts on what could be wrong.

George

  #2  
Old 11-17-2020, 03:30 AM
Aus78Formula Aus78Formula is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,389
Default

Is it this style?

https://www.classicindustries.com/pr...ts/399294.html

  #3  
Old 11-17-2020, 05:33 AM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

This is the one I bought and won't fit.

https://www.classicindustries.com/pr...s/7812210.html

  #4  
Old 11-17-2020, 09:34 AM
Norwood's Avatar
Norwood Norwood is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Bartlett, Illinois
Posts: 6,641
Default

https://www.rickscamaros.com/camaro-...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

  #5  
Old 11-18-2020, 05:30 PM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

That is what I don't know. I need one that has a longer shaft than the non tilt one.

  #6  
Old 11-18-2020, 05:50 PM
66beaumont's Avatar
66beaumont 66beaumont is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: abbotsford,BC,Canada
Posts: 207
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbd73 View Post
Hi All,
The indicators on my '73 Formula (with non tilt steering wheel) don't cancel, so I bought the green non tilt cancelling cam and took it to my auto electrician to fit it. He reported that he couldn't fit it as it seems to be the wrong one. The round section that juts out with the 2 locator lugs on it is not long enough for some reason.

So, any thoughts on what could be wrong.

George
Are springs still in place on switch. If they’re broken or missing it won’t cancel

__________________
69 gto ,all#match,467,th400,3:55 Easton posi,resto completed may 2016. 427 hp/530tq. Stump puller with stock#62 , stock intake and qjet
Th400 gone. Tkx close ratio with .64 of
66 Pontiac Beaumont sport deluxe,BB 5sp tko 3:08 auburn 450hp 550 torque wife sold it
  #7  
Old 11-19-2020, 05:12 PM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

Springs are good, so that's not the problem.
Does anyone know if the round tube like bit is longer or shorter on the tilt type as against the non tilt?

  #8  
Old 11-20-2020, 08:09 PM
John V. John V. is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,747
Default

Can't answer your question directly but if you have a non-tilt wheel I don't see how a tilt wheel cancel cam will solve the issue.

The one you bought is available from lots of sources including Dorman where presumably you could obtain it from any chain auto parts store. Same for the springs if you were to need them and possibly cheaper than from the repro parts sources.

In some descriptions, the one you bought supposedly replaces OE p/n 7805224 and 7812211. But that makes no sense since according to multiple GM MPCs, these p/ns are for the Tilt Column.

But from what I can tell, the one you bought is the style used with the non-tilt column.

I found some info in the various MPCs that show the '69-'70 Camaro used cam p/n 7804768 without tilt.

The '71 Camaro shows 7812044 without tilt but in another place this same part is listed WITH Tilt. My best guess is that non-tilt is correct but don't have enough evidence to be sure.

Another MPC shows the '71-'73 Camaro as 7812210 without tilt. But the description for this part includes "CAM CONVERSION UNIT".

I looked to see if I could discover what was meant by Conversion Unit but didn't get very far. I did find a forum post at ClassicOldsmobile.com where it looked like somebody posted a picture that might have described the difference between the early 7804768 cam and the later 7812210 cam. But I could not view it as I do not have a Facebook account. If you do, you might be able to view it and perhaps see if perhaps you need one vs. the other.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rn-help-84523/

There are some preowned ones on ebay so if the repro is not what you need but you can locate a used one that will work, identifying the p/n you need will go a long way to solving the conflict.

If you still have your original, the p/n should be on it.

Always possible that the guy installing it didn't know how it was supposed to be fitted. How confident are you that your guy knew what he was doing? A factory illustration should help.

Good luck.

  #9  
Old 11-22-2020, 04:22 PM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

Hi John,
Thanks heaps for your reply.
I've had 2 different people try to fit the cam and neither have been able to get it working correctly.

Do you or any readers have a factory illustration of how it should be set up? That would be a big help.

  #10  
Old 11-22-2020, 07:56 PM
Held for Ransom's Avatar
Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,914
Default

These were for a '74 Camaro that had a broken switch assy.
Cover on this one just pried out or use Phillips screwdriver to remove screws.
7/8" socket removes center nut.
Steering wheel puller removes steering wheel.
Phillips screwdriver removes 3 screws holding lock plate cover on. Don't lose isolator washers on backside.
Either use tool to compress lock plate or you can use picks/screwdriver to snake the clip up using thumb pressure to relax clip.
Remove clip, plate, cancelling cam.
Cancelling cam was PN 7812039.
Inspect for broken springs, cams or plastic.
Replace as necessary and reassemble in reverse.

Edit: I'll also add that cancelling cam could have been replaced with Dorman 83233, ordered from auto parts store.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1974CamaroColumnA.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	43.4 KB
ID:	554567   Click image for larger version

Name:	1974CamaroColumnB.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	49.2 KB
ID:	554568   Click image for larger version

Name:	1974CamaroColumnC.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	108.7 KB
ID:	554569   Click image for larger version

Name:	1974CamaroColumnD.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	58.2 KB
ID:	554570   Click image for larger version

Name:	1974CamaroColumnE.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	67.1 KB
ID:	554571  


__________________
So long, farewell.

Last edited by Held for Ransom; 11-22-2020 at 08:22 PM.
  #11  
Old 11-24-2020, 09:58 PM
John V. John V. is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,747
Default

Not sure these Illustrations are as helpful as the pix Mike posted but posting anyway. They are from the '73 Service Manual.

The first includes a couple Notes specific to the Cancel Cam, ie., align the cam tower with the slot in the lock plate and how to lock the Insulator into the cam tower.

The others are the general non-tilt parts diagram along with the associated parts list for that diagram.

Couldn't find any info on the 7812039 cam vs the 7812044 or any other cam for that matter. Wish it was obvious how these all differed.

It is possible that the cam was p/n 7812039 as cast in the plastic but possible that it was serviced with the Insulator already installed, resulting in an assembly p/n of 7812044.

I just discovered that 7812044 was superseded by 7812211. All indications are this was the cam for the Tilt Wheel, so my earlier guess that the conflicting listing of 7812044 was likely the non-tilt cam seems like was wrong and that it was actually the tilt cam.

I also see that 7812136 was superseded by 7812210 which was the correct service replacement for the non-tilt column.

Still can't find 7812039 but no matter. Somehow these non-tilt column cam p/ns seem to all interchange and not clear why there were multiple p/ns.

But hopefully you have the correct part and with the pix and illustrations you'll get it sorted out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1834.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	71.0 KB
ID:	554697   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1835.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	66.0 KB
ID:	554698   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1836.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	108.1 KB
ID:	554699  

  #12  
Old 11-25-2020, 12:58 AM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

This is the one that I have bought and seems to be too short in the shaft/tube section.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cancelling cam.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	57.3 KB
ID:	554713   Click image for larger version

Name:	Cancelling cam 1.jpg
Views:	70
Size:	62.4 KB
ID:	554714  

  #13  
Old 11-26-2020, 08:08 PM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

Hi All,
As far as I can see and by all the comments, I think I have the correct cancelling cam as there seems to be only one from about 1969 until about 2002 for the non tilt steering wheel.

So, if that is correct, does anyone have any idea what the problem could be? i.e. too much play in the shaft not allowing the cam to connect?

I really have no idea so am clutching at straws here guys.

  #14  
Old 11-27-2020, 11:26 AM
Held for Ransom's Avatar
Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,914
Default

Yup, the one you purchased is the one I mentioned and should be the correct length.

Can you compare the pictures I posted to yours and look at things like where the spring is sitting to where the shaft is sitting?

__________________
So long, farewell.
  #15  
Old 11-28-2020, 01:37 PM
John V. John V. is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,747
Default

Mike, you mentioned about the Camaro with the broken switch. Could that be the issue here?

George, can you post pix of yours similar to the ones Mike posted? That might help us visualize what is going on here.

Mike's advice to compare yours with the pix he posted is good but if you can post some pix, all the better. Somebody with more experience might spot the problem.

I am curious why your new cam is disassembled? Is that the one Classic Industries sent to you? I would have left that one at the auto parts store if it was an open package and gone looking elsewhere. Hard enough to get parts for old cars here, must suck to do it from your part of the world. I feel for ya!

  #16  
Old 11-29-2020, 04:50 PM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.
I am not doing this repair (don't know enough about it), my auto electrician is doing it.
I will have to take the car back to him and get him to disassemble it to be able to get some photos. Will see if he will do it.

He had already tried to fit the cancelling cam I bought, but said there is no difference to the one that is currently in there and the new one I purchased, hence my thought that there might be something else wrong. i.e. wrong cancelling cam (doesn't seem like it though), something else that isn't aligning up, something worn that is giving too much play??????

  #17  
Old 12-01-2020, 07:48 PM
Held for Ransom's Avatar
Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,914
Default

If there was no difference, I'm not understanding why the new one wouldn't fit. I can understand if it didn't fix the initial problem.

John, yes, I'm thinking his switch is broken in the area of the one I've pictured.

__________________
So long, farewell.
  #18  
Old 12-01-2020, 07:58 PM
fbd73's Avatar
fbd73 fbd73 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 159
Default

It fits perfectly. The tube like section with the cancelling lugs bit on it just doesn't seem to be long enough.

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:43 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017