[Pepi]

Hey George,
I am a little confused on the clearance. You say if the clearance

Originally Posted by george kujanski

If your clearance, (regardless of cast or stamped) is more than say, .060", YOU ARE THROWING AWAY COOLING EFFICIENCY. I tweaked mine from about .250" down to about .100" and it made a drastic change in my engine temps with no other changes.

But then you say you tweaked yours down to .100". That is .040" GREATER then .060". Did you mean .010"?

I just pulled my pump, and it is cast, and I am getting about .063".
I measured it without pulling anything apart yet, so it has the divider plate still sealed on. I am debating if I should try to reduce that clearance or should that be good.

Thanks,
Pepi

[Pepi]

Anyone with experience on this matter have any thoughts as whether I should leave the clearance alone at .063 or try to get down to maybe .010?

Thanks,
pepi

[george kujanski]

Hi there......When I did that, I had a lot of clearance, and wanted to experiment if minimizing the clearance would help. My first try got it to the .100" dimension and tried it out with success.

Undoubtedly a smaller gap is better; at your dimension I would leave it alone. Some members do an interference fit without a gasket, the gasket provides the necessary clearance.

Next time I take mine apart, i'll close it up some more.

George

[Pepi]

Okay thanks George. I'll put it back on the way it is, guess I am lucky, and out only one gasket since I didn't take the divider plate off, and it is still sealed onto the pump.

[DanC]

OK, I've been following this post with great interest and finally got around to pulling my 8 bolt pump this past weekend to see what I have.

What I had was a stamped steel impellor with 1/8" clearance.

Now I just picked up a Cardone with the cast impellor. It had a 1/4" gap. So I've pulled the impellor up to 1/8" clearance and then lightly hammered the plate down to create a .081" clearance to the vanes.

My question is, the divider plate center hole does not have a "key slot" in it like some of the pics I've seen. Is that good, bad, or no issue?



How I did it 101:
I pulled the impellor by enlarging the three holes to 17/64" and tapped 5/16-24, then used a puller to bring the end of the impellor flush w/ the shaft. I then used a 'Nissan' pulley (which is a little larger than the Pontiac divider plate hole), and hammered the plate flange down. Used drill bits to gage the clearances.

DanC

[Groucho]

Good thread. But, it's gonna be tough reading almost TWELVE HUNDRED posts when I need to research this the next time I do a Pontiac W.P.

[69-er]

Originally Posted by DanC

...So I've pulled the impellor up to 1/8" clearance and then lightly hammered the plate down to create a .081" clearance to the vanes.DanC

It's been awhile since I participated in this thread. Did we discuss pulling the impeller out closer to the plate? I don't believe I did as I was concerned about water possibly flowing to the back of it, reducing efficiency. I massaged only the plate until I got the required clearance.

It worked beautifully, BTW!!

Larry

[Pepi]

Originally Posted by Groucho

Good thread. But, it's gonna be tough reading almost TWELVE HUNDRED posts when I need to research this the next time I do a Pontiac W.P.

I know, I started doing that when I had a question about the clearance. We need a summary posted, with questions and answers. I mean all the post with positive news and feedback and other thoughts are good, but the really important stuff will get lost in the 1200+ post.

[DanC]

Originally Posted by 69-er

Did we discuss pulling the impeller out closer to the plate?

Larry

Yes there are 21 posts about moving the impeller position in this thread. I didn't actually count them, but rather did a "pull impeller" search on this thread and it came up with 21.
I'm no engineer, but I'd think that once the water has filled the cavity and is swirling around in the pump, with the closed gap at the plate, that the water would be forced out of the two holes.

Anyway yesterday I found that my divider plate that goes against the timing cover has gaps where the flared water outlet meets the cast tube on the RH side of cover and a gap where the partial flange on the LH side meets the flush hole on the cover. Wondering if I should JB Weld a cone there for the flare to fit in?

DanC

[troy_barker]

Yep thats alot of post, I started reading days ago and still not finished. So...I skipped to the last page.

Anyway I have an 8 bolt setup with a cast impeller, the clearance between the impeller vains and the plate is 1/4 inch. I am guesssing that distance needs to be reduces to at least 1/8th?

[DanC]

Originally Posted by DanC

OK, I've been following this post with great interest and finally got around to pulling my 8 bolt pump this past weekend to see what I have.

What I had was a stamped steel impellor with 1/8" clearance.

Now I just picked up a Cardone with the cast impellor. It had a 1/4" gap. So I've pulled the impellor up to 1/8" clearance and then lightly hammered the plate down to create a .081" clearance to the vanes.

My question is, the divider plate center hole does not have a "key slot" in it like some of the pics I've seen. Is that good, bad, or no issue?



How I did it 101:
I pulled the impellor by enlarging the three holes to 17/64" and tapped 5/16-24, then used a puller to bring the end of the impellor flush w/ the shaft. I then used a 'Nissan' pulley (which is a little larger than the Pontiac divider plate hole), and hammered the plate flange down. Used drill bits to gage the clearances.

DanC

OK, finalized the install of my Cardone Cast Impeller WP and test drove this afternoon.
WP specs: 4-5/8 dia impeller, 11/16" vane height, .081" vane to divider plate clearance

Outside air temp 83 w/ 96% humidity (Cooler than usual - just rained). 180* thermostat
A/C 'on' and driving 60mph coolant temp still at 212*, same results as my stamped impeller was with it's 1/8" clearance. Temp was ~180* in traffic. Temp gauge markings verified with my infared thermo gun.

Checked timing and have 14* inital & 28* w/ vac adv hooked up. 60* total @ 3600

Disclaimer: These results are not typical (as per this thread). All tests were conducted using the same vehicle under uncontrolled conditions and no other changes made other than listed in my 08.09.11 quote above, including the performed JB Weld mod. No "key hole" on divider plate.

I'm glad I was never bothered by the temps, since nothing changed, but curiosity had gotten the best of me about these cast impeller and clearance claims. So this inquiring mind just had to know

DanC

[Blk 76]

I know the pump on a small block chevy is totally different but my 1990 chevy truck has always run hotter than i think it should, could it be because of a stamped impeller? I do not know when they started using these and it makes me wonder what impeller is inside my pump.

[Brent Flynn]

Originally Posted by DanC

OK, finalized the install of my Cardone Cast Impeller WP and test drove this afternoon.
WP specs: 4-5/8 dia impeller, 11/16" vane height, .081" vane to divider plate clearance

Outside air temp 83 w/ 96% humidity (Cooler than usual - just rained). 180* thermostat
A/C 'on' and driving 60mph coolant temp still at 212*, same results as my stamped impeller was with it's 1/8" clearance. Temp was ~180* in traffic. Temp gauge markings verified with my infared thermo gun.

Checked timing and have 14* inital & 28* w/ vac adv hooked up. 60* total @ 3600

Disclaimer: These results are not typical (as per this thread). All tests were conducted using the same vehicle under uncontrolled conditions and no other changes made other than listed in my 08.09.11 quote above, including the performed JB Weld mod. No "key hole" on divider plate.

I'm glad I was never bothered by the temps, since nothing changed, but curiosity had gotten the best of me about these cast impeller and clearance claims. So this inquiring mind just had to know

DanC

Unless im reading this wrong, the reason you arent seeing any improvement, is, you are runnin WAY too much total timing... back it down where you are only running 36deg total.... you are bout to destroy some headgaskets if this is a Pontiac engine.... or any other engine, for that matter.... it will run hot like that. Im surprised noone else commented on this...

[Old Goat 67]

GENTLEMEN,

Spoke with "rockdoc" last evening and he advised me he had procured a Cardone pump from Rock Auto with the CORRECT impeller.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,2208

http://www.cardone.com/Products/Prod...ear=1967&info=

Seems Cardone has a NEW pump that came out called "CARDONE Select [New]-Part Number: 55-11137.

Dave is going to post pictures when he has time, but he is on the road just now. I thought some of you may need this info ASAP.

Charles

[Old Goat 67]

The links don't keep the info needed.

Search for part # PWP381 on Rock Auto for correct info.

Charles

[Old Goat 67]

Email from Cardone contact says this today.

Charles,



I am in meetings most of the day, but just wanted to respond to your voicemail. No, the Select version of our 58-299 is not the impeller fix. I mentioned to Gary that I would give you both a call in a few weeks to resume discussions for this. I appreciate your patience considering the circumstances. Will be in touch.


Regards,

T

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

The links don't keep the info needed.

Search for part # PWP381 on Rock Auto for correct info.

Charles

Pretty, NO cigar!

Quote from cardone rep,

I am in meetings most of the day, but just wanted to respond to your voicemail. No, the Select version of our 58-299 is not the impeller fix.

[81v8gp]

I guess I would be save to say that this procedure would apply to my vehicle also. 1981 Grand Prix with a 265 V8. Same block as the 301 and my water pump has the same divider plate. I recently installed a new timing set, water pump and divider plate. Started the car up and temp ran up to 230. I have owned this car since new and the temp has never gone over 190. The weird thing is, when I would turn the heater to hot the temp would drop to 190. I tried changing the thermostat, sending unit and had the radiator boiled out, but nothing helped. A guy over at 301garage.com suggested I try this site. Well I am going to rip this apart tonight and see if the impeller is anywhere near the divider plate.

[Stuckinda60s]

Your heater acts as a radiator, that's why the engine cools when you put water through it.

[sixgunsblazing]

Grr.
Why the heck do replacement waterpumps only come with one gasket when you need two, one for each side of the plate? Fun to find out at 7Pm when the shop's closed.