[67Dan]

I have read the long 57 page thread on water pumps! Mine on my 1967 GTO recently crashed and after looking at quite a few, know none will work unless, one: I smash the rear plate to fit or two: find a freak pump like Charles(Old Goat) with taller vanes.

The real solution is not in smashing the plates, but to find a pump with taller vanes on the impeller that conform to the space at hand properly!

After looking at so many pumps, and help from Charles, I liked Cordone pumps. Everyone I looked at had ¼” too much clearance, which we all know is out of tolerance for consistent cooling, but Cordone’s quality is consistent from pump to pump. Consistently wrong!(GRIN)

I thought, why not call them and see if they will slightly modify their pump. Upon inspecting so many, I had to send back, and Charles checked a few in Louisiana, you notice that all the vanes or fins are shaved. The question jumps out WHY? We need the extra height of the vanes and they are removing material! Got on their website found their techs email site and wrote them. They promptly wrote me back with an 888 phone number. Decided to call and it was a start. Nice folks!

I sent pictures of the Cordone pump I bought with the ¼” clearance problem and a picture of Charles pump with the tighter tolerances, also Cordone! Also sent the tech the link to the water pump thread and there is a video on YouTube as well!

Later sent the email address of the tech to Charles and he sent and email to the tech as well and eventually called him as I did!

Today we got a BS letter that the engineers had looked into it and there was no problem! Now after looking at 57 pages on the subject it pissed me off! I called and had a stern talk with Stanley(Tech Rep) about Cordone’s engineers and emailed him a page letter that Cordone’s engineers didn’t know crap from Crisco and had never had the problem in the summer. All theory and no practical experience!

To the point, in the letter I told Stanley they make a solid pump, and they do. I also told him with a little tweaking it could be perfect! I found out Charles had called earlier and had a spiritual talk with him while I was at work! Some of us do have to work Charles to pay your SS!(LOL)

I will list Stanley Choynacky’s(Cordone tech rep) email address and I challenge each and every one of you to email him a note requesting they modify their pump! Nothing vulgar please, just asking nicely, as our group, to help us with our need! Many times there is force in numbers! I also stated while my GTO is down, and I am patient, next Friday I call another manufacturer until I find one that will help us with our problem!

Two things: Please write Stanley at: SChoynacky@cardone.com

Phase two, I want to compile a list of other Manufacturers of Pontiac pumps so if Cordone won’t play ball, I go down the list until I find that special one that will listen and help us out! At present I have a list of 11 pump makers that manufacturer water pumps for Pontiac. A real surprise! Ranges from Delco to Bosch!

Dan Mascheck
Wharton, TX

[rolling money pits]

???

dude, just bend the separator plate to closer clearance to the pump vanes.

trying to get a major rebuilder of millions of water pumps for 100s of vehicle lines to "one-off" a Z moving pump is, well, a waste of time.

[67Dan]

While you like to throw in the towel, I like to get them to change. I will get someone! We will see who is right! Bending the plate SUCKS!

[Pontirag]

Its not really nessessarry to bend the plates ya know....

if you look closely at how the impeller is pressed on and press it back off that quarter inch then bingo your in business.

But

think about what you are doing..

if you load the pump bearing while pressing the impeller to move it on the shaft you will destroy the pump bearing

support the shaft properly pull the pump impeller carefully. Move it incrementaly

I'm amazed that people beat that poor plate to death when its only doin its job

and what if the plate is one of those stainless plates. Beat on that for a while

yea the secret it to press the impeller off its shaft a little bit rather than beat up your plates

I have a friend that rebuilds them up in PHX I bring him the parts he dis assembles them and cleans them and re assembles them with a new bearing but the secret is that he has my housing and plate . he gestimates the gasket thickness and presses the impeller on only sooooo faaarr. actualy the impeller is pressed on just so it touches the devider plate. then when I assemble it with the gaskets thee two geskets thickness equals the clearance. That extra service cost me a 50 dollar waterpump but its all good when its done.

[67Dan]

I know all that. The problem is you leave space in the back behind the impeller, while functional, the pump they are making is not right! Read the 57 page thread!

All I'm asking is for a few people to have the fortitude to write Stanley an email. Takes a minute at most! If enough people write, then they might change. If everyone sits on their hands???????????

Have a good one!

[Dr. Drivability]

My question would be "was the one on the car working fine before it failed?" and if yes, why not rebuild it or have it rebuilt. While Cardone has gotten much better at the quality of the rebuilt and new parts they produce, they are still the Walmart of aftermarket parts.

my .02

[bigborehunter]

I use a Milodon #16281 Hi Perf water pump.
Aluminum body, tall vanes and it fits between baffle plate and engine side perfectly.
Tapping the baffle plate is no big deal if you have a short impeller vane set up.

[Pontirag]

as long as it aint stainless

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by bigborehunter

I use a Milodon #16281 Hi Perf water pump.
Aluminum body, tall vanes and it fits between baffle plate and engine side perfectly.
Tapping the baffle plate is no big deal if you have a short impeller vane set up.

I appreciate the heads up! I'm still holding out that Cordone will see the errors of their ways! I was talking to Charles(Old Goat) a few minutes ago and it seems several people have been calling and or emailing Stanley with Cordone! I still feel if enough people write they may change their pump! If you log into their site and read them "About Us", they say they are dedicated to their customer first! We will see!
I do appreciate the info and it gives me another source to solve my problem!

Thank you very much!
Dan Mascheck

[Old Goat 67]

Update of this thread, after talking at lenght to the tech guy at Cardone on Thursday afternoon.

Charles, I have two people checking into this. Thanks

Hopefully, we will hear something positive soon. They do realize there is a problem and they are trying to work it out, I THINK.

Charles

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Update of this thread, after talking at lenght to the tech guy at Cardone on Thursday afternoon.



Hopefully, we will hear something positive soon. They do realize there is a problem and they are trying to work it out, I THINK.

Charles

The plot thickens! I would like to think they believe what they quote on their site!
Friday is my cut off period!
I looked at Milodon and seems they only have the 11 bolt high flow pump. I need an 8 bolt.

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

Its not really nessessarry to bend the plates ya know....

if you look closely at how the impeller is pressed on and press it back off that quarter inch then bingo your in business.

But

think about what you are doing..

if you load the pump bearing while pressing the impeller to move it on the shaft you will destroy the pump bearing

support the shaft properly pull the pump impeller carefully. Move it incrementaly

I'm amazed that people beat that poor plate to death when its only doin its job

and what if the plate is one of those stainless plates. Beat on that for a while

yea the secret it to press the impeller off its shaft a little bit rather than beat up your plates

I have a friend that rebuilds them up in PHX I bring him the parts he dis assembles them and cleans them and re assembles them with a new bearing but the secret is that he has my housing and plate . he gestimates the gasket thickness and presses the impeller on only sooooo faaarr. actualy the impeller is pressed on just so it touches the devider plate. then when I assemble it with the gaskets thee two geskets thickness equals the clearance. That extra service cost me a 50 dollar waterpump but its all good when its done.

Interesting, but I live in Texas and we have the ball rolling with Cordone to fix their pump. I just need some people to email Stanley and help out.

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

as long as it aint stainless

And mine is Stainless.

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drivability

My question would be "was the one on the car working fine before it failed?" and if yes, why not rebuild it or have it rebuilt. While Cardone has gotten much better at the quality of the rebuilt and new parts they produce, they are still the Walmart of aftermarket parts.

my .02

They build a nice reman pumped. They just have a clearance isssue. We have them thinking about it and I just need help sendin Stanley emails to keep the ball rolling!

[Pontirag]

stainles work hardens very quickly. just beating on it a little is enough to work harden it. Better to adjust the depth of the pump on the shaft. Howmuch accuracy across the face of the plate can you get with a hammer? Once you set the depth of the impeller on the shaft than remember that dimension and every time you install a new pump (how often) just refer to that dimension.

I'm reading the evans waterless coolant thread and they have a nice looking impeller but I wonder what the dimention between the impelller and the plate is. they include a template to drill a bleed hole in the plate but the therory behind that only works if the impeller is very close to the plate. so the million dolar question is whats the dimention between the impeller and the plate on evans pump.

too bad they dont do the evens in aluminium with a 3/4 inch bearing. That would be worth the buckeroos. How do those harverd marketeers miss these gold mines.

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

stainles work hardens very quickly. just beating on it a little is enough to work harden it. Better to adjust the depth of the pump on the shaft. Howmuch accuracy across the face of the plate can you get with a hammer? Once you set the depth of the impeller on the shaft than remember that dimension and every time you install a new pump (how often) just refer to that dimension.

I'm not much into beating the hell out of anything! Not very precise! We have the ball rolling with Cordone and if enough email them, sure seems like they might! I would prefer to have the pump built right so I don't have to worry in our hot humid summers!

[GT182]

I also talked to Stanley today. They know the problem and are starting work on it. Flooding them with emails ain't gonna help any more than just p!ss em off. And we don't want that do we. Charles got the ball rolling so they now actually see what's wrong. Let's let em check it out.

There's also another issue that they're going to look into. Maybe be this part of the problem will be addressed too and make it a whole lot easier to change out water pumps. Can't tell ya what it is just yet, but you'll like it. Let's say it might kill two birds with one stone.

Now the nice thing is that Cardone is in Philly. Everyone that's needed to talk to...... Head hounchos, Tech support, and Engineering are close by.

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by GT182

I also talked to Stanley today. They know the problem and are starting work on it. Flooding them with emails ain't gonna help any more than just p!ss em off. And we don't want that do we. Charles got the ball rolling so they now actually see what's wrong. Let's let em check it out.

There's also another issue that they're going to look into. Maybe be this part of the problem will be addressed too and make it a whole lot easier to change out water pumps. Can't tell ya what it is just yet, but you'll like it. Let's say it might kill two birds with one stone.

Now the nice thing is that Cardone is in Philly. Everyone that's needed to talk to...... Head hounchos, Tech support, and Engineering are close by.

I called Stanley the first time after looking at 6 pumps and they all had the clearance problems with my Stainless plates!

Charles has been down once and has been a hell of a help and a great friend.

Stanley is a very nice guy on the phone and Charles called today saying someone had talked to Stanley today! Charles called Stanley after my call and email. Then I wrote the initial plea to get people going on PY! Truthfully, I didn’t think many would send in emails! Some must have!

I agree you can over do it, but they have to know there are numbers which translates into MONEY.(GRIN)

I’m giving them till Friday and I go to plan B! There are, as I last counted 13 other builders of our water pumps! One will listen! I hope it is Cordone!

Their initial response was the engineers found nothing wrong. That got Charles and I pissed to say the least! We will see and I pray you are right! I’m not into beating the hell out of my plate! That’s a poor way of solving the problem! Hell, I would be willing to pay much more for a good product.

Have a good done!

Dan Mascheck
Wharton, TX

[GT182]

Well Dan, we'll have to wait and see. I don't imagine they'll start looking into it until Monday. Hopefully we'll hear something back from Stanley by Wednesday.

If I have to I'll run up to Cardone with my original divider plates for the 8 bolt pump. And also take up the 11 bolt pump and divider plate I have too. I'd say looking at the real thing is always better than looking at a picture of it.

[Pontirag]

perhaps there is another engineer without a hearing problem