[KEN CROCIE]

mysteries to be solved:
plug gap
chipped cam gear
post # 75. valve pocket placement. looks to me that the valve was hitting the edge of the pocket.
what caused #5 to get so hot.

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

Moving forward, I would caution anyone against purchasing their own parts and doing this. Let your machinist prepping your block purchase the parts and have responsibility for them.

This is the route I've taken on engines\transmissions lately. Most reputable shops have no problem warrantying their work if they supplied the parts, but once you introduce something of yours that they didn't supply, they get very skittish about it. I have had conversations with machinists at their shops on a friendly basis and they have given me the picture that if it's something they bought, they have recourse going after their supplier who they usually have a relationship with. If it's something some rando sold on craigslist or eBay and brought to the shop, they have next to no recourse other than pissing off the customer by telling them it isn't their fault or eating it.

I can't physically do the work on these big engines anymore so if I am doing something it needs to be done right the first time and if I'm pulling an engine, it better not be because I screwed up. Machining\manufacturing defects are not unheard of, even with quality vendors and suppliers. If we need a near clean-room environment to assemble an engine, that's going to put a hardship on a lot of people who don't have access to that kind of resource.

[johnta1]

None at all,the block was line honed after they and the ARP bolts were put in.Pretty sure its something to do with the radius on the aftermarket crank and the bearing.Tom

Check the main cap dimensions especially where that little 'sliver' of the cap is.
I had a block honed, looked great, fitted mains, dropped in crank.
Tightened each cap and checked the rotation torque. Excellent. Until I got to the last (rear) cap.
It would not budge!
I checked the clearances again, perfect. Except I never checked that little piece on back of the cap.


When honed, the operator did not run the hone all the way through the cap/block. Did the wide part, thought the bearing didn't go all the way to the end of the cap. (thought they were seal grooves?)

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

This cannot be a normal thing, otherwise garage hobbyists are doomed. If a hobbyist needs to go to this level of inspection detail on semi-finished parts, it becomes an unworkable project for most of us.

And most "engine builders" as well.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CEzMqmjnCEc/

[tom s]

The hone was all the way through!Tom

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

This is the route I've taken on engines\transmissions lately. Most reputable shops have no problem warrantying their work if they supplied the parts, but once you introduce something of yours that they didn't supply, they get very skittish about it. I have had conversations with machinists at their shops on a friendly basis and they have given me the picture that if it's something they bought, they have recourse going after their supplier who they usually have a relationship with. If it's something some rando sold on craigslist or eBay and brought to the shop, they have next to no recourse other than pissing off the customer by telling them it isn't their fault or eating it.

I can't physically do the work on these big engines anymore so if I am doing something it needs to be done right the first time and if I'm pulling an engine, it better not be because I screwed up. Machining\manufacturing defects are not unheard of, even with quality vendors and suppliers. If we need a near clean-room environment to assemble an engine, that's going to put a hardship on a lot of people who don't have access to that kind of resource.

While I completely understand this message. I think most of us buy these parts as time and money permits because of the cost.



Is it better to to save the money, don't buy the parts and plop it down to a builder?

[mchell]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

Yes, the bearings were part of the kit I purchased from Butler. I will try to speak with them Monday, but I'm waiting on more info from the machinist. He's going to do some measurements with different bearings, stock crank, etc..

In my opinion, they should sell the kit with a narrow bearing or reduced radius (fillet). The customer should have no need to machine the crank for this. At the least, send a note with the kit that this needs to be checked.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if this is either a manufacturing defect by Scat or Clevite. I doubt Butler would even check something like this on their own builds,

This cannot be a normal thing, otherwise garage hobbyists are doomed. If a hobbyist needs to go to this level of inspection detail on semi-finished parts, it becomes an unworkable project for most of us.

Moving forward, I would caution anyone against purchasing their own parts and doing this. Let your machinist prepping your block purchase the parts and have responsibility for them.

Unfortunately, there are No guarantees no matter how you play it....

Just because a builder supplies the parts, builds it and you blow it up a day later later doesn’t guarantee squat. Too many variables.

I like to run em on the Dyno before install. Much easer to repair a problem found on the dyno. At least I have a chance at knowing it Might hold together AFTER I install it.

How long it will run after install is still a crap shoot on even a moderately built Pontiac. I drive em hard....

[lust4speed]

I take the "finished" cranks from suppliers to the machine shop and pay for their inspection. I've had several reports come back with journal taper and one bent crank. Don't get me started on problems with rods and pistons that either I have found or the machine shop found on their inspections.

To quote Ken Crocie, "We are now the quality control inspectors".

Reference a previous posted photo that I enlarged - is the seal contact surface tore up as much as the photo makes it look? If so, could the seal friction heated the rear of the crank enough to take up clearance and seize the bearing?

[tom s]

Mick,we will know more when Mike can get into it.He is having to shoe horn this in between jobs he already had going.One is my 383-301 engine.Tom

[ponjohn]

Any updates?

[wbnapier]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Any updates?

I spoke to the machinist on Friday. He had just received a new set of main bearings that he needed to make a couple of tests, specifically a new #5 bearing. He said he'd do those today or tomorrow and let me know.

His goal is to get some specific measurements on the radius fillet, bearing width, bearing chamfer, endplay, interference, etc... before I contact Butler and Scat.

I read through the warranty info on Butler's and Scat's website and don't see any meaningful recourse based on the specifics of their written warranty, assuming I can demonstrate a clear manufacturing error.

Let's say Butler/Scat acknowledge an error, what can I expect?

After this, I'll get a quote, soup-to-nuts, on a long block and evalauate what I can swing.

I will post on this thread as soon as I get an update.

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

I spoke to the machinist on Friday. He had just received a new set of main bearings that he needed to make a couple of tests, specifically a new #5 bearing..

Hi did he say which mains he ordered? Should be what came with the stroker kit.

[tom s]

I think he was ordering at least a couple brands.He was going to get a set of Clevites but wont run them.Tom

[johnta1]

Probably needs mains (and rods) for a large filet crank throw?
I always had to special order them? (used a different number for them than the standard type of bearings)

[wbnapier]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Probably needs mains (and rods) for a large filet crank throw?
I always had to special order them? (used a different number for them than the standard type of bearings)

Yes, the bearings came with the stroker kit, Clevite, either P or H I think.

I'm assuming he could look at what came out vs. what he has in hand and compare them.

[tom s]

John,I have been able to find rods but have not found mains that are made for a large radius?Tom

[wbnapier]

The Clevite / Mahle are advertised as narrow on one side for large fillet radius:

https://catalog.mahle-aftermarket.co...52599445131138

[tom s]

As I said,those are rod bearings!I can't find narrow mains.Tom

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by steve25

Wow! 10 minutes of main Bearing run time on just assembly oil is a bit more then I would have thought.

Auto Mechanics Class graduation picnic.

A Mopar got dragged out of a Treasure Yard, drained of oil, and idled. Bets taken on how long before it "blew up".

When folks got bored, they put a brick on the gas pedal, not enough to achieve WFO, but beyond "fast idle".

Most folks went home before it seized.

God bless the Leaning Tower of Power.

[KEN CROCIE]

Reminds me of the guy at the swap meet selling secret oil sauce. He had an old I-6 running without the oil pan. Onlookers were amazed