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Old 09-17-2020, 12:29 PM
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Default Joined Torqhead and 68lemans462 at Bandimere

First track outing I've undertaken in many years and the first I've had my bird out. I joined up with Dave and Dan, as well as some other Pontiac enthusiast for some fun runs at Bandimere last night.

I was more nervous about the drive down there. I'm about 75 miles away from the track and driving a low geared, non-overdrive vehicle long distances is always a bit nerve racking.

Made it there and back just fine, but the better part is that the car exceeded my expectations how it sits. I got 5 runs in with a best of 13.389 @ 103.72. Cut a decent 60' on street tires after figuring out the track would hold more than my first run of the evening. DA on that run was around 8150 ft.

After that unfortunately the track and my tires just started getting greasy and the car was plenty heat soaked. Couldn't get the car off the line well and ET's suffered as a result.

The car never really hiccuped and only needed some minor tweaking to accelerator pump settings. A few weaknesses did show up that I can address. Cooling is an issue for the car at low speeds so I really need to address my fan situation. The car also needs a better trans cooler and I believe an oil cooler would also help as I watched pressure levels slowly drop as the car because more heat soaked.

Race weight with me and a 3/4 tank of gas was right at 3600 lbs.

Both Dave and Dan were running pretty well last night and the air wasn't the worst I've seen there. Both are really great guys and gave me that necessary push to get out and abuse the car for a bit! Definitely appreciate all their help and insight!

Here's a quick clip of a couple of my later runs after I unloaded the car and got the go-pro out.

https://youtu.be/ZTUMu66jA9A

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  #2  
Old 09-17-2020, 03:47 PM
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First track outing I've undertaken in many years and the first I've had my bird out. I joined up with Dave and Dan, as well as some other Pontiac enthusiast for some fun runs at Bandimere last night.

I was more nervous about the drive down there. I'm about 75 miles away from the track and driving a low geared, non-overdrive vehicle long distances is always a bit nerve racking.

Made it there and back just fine, but the better part is that the car exceeded my expectations how it sits. I got 5 runs in with a best of 13.389 @ 103.72. Cut a decent 60' on street tires after figuring out the track would hold more than my first run of the evening. DA on that run was around 8150 ft.

After that unfortunately the track and my tires just started getting greasy and the car was plenty heat soaked. Couldn't get the car off the line well and ET's suffered as a result.

The car never really hiccuped and only needed some minor tweaking to accelerator pump settings. A few weaknesses did show up that I can address. Cooling is an issue for the car at low speeds so I really need to address my fan situation. The car also needs a better trans cooler and I believe an oil cooler would also help as I watched pressure levels slowly drop as the car because more heat soaked.

Race weight with me and a 3/4 tank of gas was right at 3600 lbs.

Both Dave and Dan were running pretty well last night and the air wasn't the worst I've seen there. Both are really great guys and gave me that necessary push to get out and abuse the car for a bit! Definitely appreciate all their help and insight!

Here's a quick clip of a couple of my later runs after I unloaded the car and got the go-pro out.

https://youtu.be/ZTUMu66jA9A
Was a fun night, nice to meet you and for coming out. You have a real nice car. We had some new bests last night too! Dave had his first 12.8 run at 12.89 and I had my first 1.7 60', 1.79.... Always good to see some Pontiacs out there!

p.s. where did you buy those headlights?!

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Old 09-17-2020, 04:05 PM
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Definitely good to meet you as well. My headlights are from Dapper Lighting.

https://www.dapperlighting.com/

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1969 Pontiac Firebird
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Old 09-18-2020, 07:42 AM
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Really cool to see some street driven Pontiacs at the track. My personal favorites are the untrailered cars like you guys but I understand that also depends on proximity. You guys should post up the altitude converted ETs for us sea level guys.

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69 GTO Liberty Blue/dark blue 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.59@ 114, 1.57/ 60'
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:24 AM
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Really cool to see some street driven Pontiacs at the track. My personal favorites are the untrailered cars like you guys but I understand that also depends on proximity. You guys should post up the altitude converted ETs for us sea level guys.
Bandimere is 5813 ft above sea level and the DA on the evening started around 8200 ft and would have fallen to around 7500 ft around 8pm.

Per the drag times calculator, my best run on the evening corrects to 12.011@115.15 on the stock to mildly modified naturally aspirated scale or 12.293@112.355 on the extensively modified naturally aspirated scale.

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Old 09-18-2020, 10:45 AM
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Ha, I was going to say that's a very respectable time that should be somewhere around a very high 11 or very low 12 at somewhere around 115 mph with those DA's you were seeing. Very nice!!

I'd rather drive than trailer to the track. For us it's a pinch over 100 miles to Wildhorse. I drive them in, race, and drive home. 3.73's aren't terrible if you have a 28" tire. 65 mph is about 2800 rpm, I've gone across country 2,000 miles like that. If you run a pretty low profile tire though that gear starts to really show up.

Glad to see some street cars having some fun at the strip. Wish I saw more of the classic stuff there.

How did your Fi-tech do at adjusting for the altitude changes? That's the part I'm looking forward to with these Holley Snipers.
Did it take a couple runs to settle in?

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Old 09-18-2020, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Formulajones View Post
Ha, I was going to say that's a very respectable time that should be somewhere around a very high 11 or very low 12 at somewhere around 115 mph with those DA's you were seeing. Very nice!!

I'd rather drive than trailer to the track. For us it's a pinch over 100 miles to Wildhorse. I drive them in, race, and drive home. 3.73's aren't terrible if you have a 28" tire. 65 mph is about 2800 rpm, I've gone across country 2,000 miles like that. If you run a pretty low profile tire though that gear starts to really show up.

Glad to see some street cars having some fun at the strip. Wish I saw more of the classic stuff there.

How did your Fi-tech do at adjusting for the altitude changes? That's the part I'm looking forward to with these Holley Snipers.
Did it take a couple runs to settle in?
Yup, I run a 26" (25.7" actual) tire. 65 mph is around 3300 rpm with converter slip factored in.

FiTech performed great and did so out of the gate. I only had to make 1 small change to tip in fueling. Added about 5% to the fast accel to clean up a lean tip in. Everything else was spot on.

The very first run down the track with no changes was actually the second fastest run of the night for me. 2nd run was the 13.38. Car got slower the rest of the evening as the track became greasy and I could no longer cut a decent 60 ft.

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Old 09-18-2020, 01:05 PM
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Yup, I run a 26" (25.7" actual) tire. 65 mph is around 3300 rpm with converter slip factored in.

FiTech performed great and did so out of the gate. I only had to make 1 small change to tip in fueling. Added about 5% to the fast accel to clean up a lean tip in. Everything else was spot on.

The very first run down the track with no changes was actually the second fastest run of the night for me. 2nd run was the 13.38. Car got slower the rest of the evening as the track became greasy and I could no longer cut a decent 60 ft.
Excellent news, good to hear. I only hope the Snipers work that well with the elevation change we'll see. We're set to go down the 1st of November. Your car sounds good and very unsuspecting with that baby smooth idle.

Yeah that's getting up there in rpm, a good 500 rpm higher than what I cruise with that gear and a 28 inch tire. In fact that's the rpm I turn in another car at 65 with a 4.10 gear and 28 inch tire LOL I've been driving that car that way for 33 years. It's getting a 4L80E

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Old 09-18-2020, 02:03 PM
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It's not as big of an altitude difference as you see going from Arizona's mesa to it's valley, but I still had a full 1300 ft of elevation change between my location and Bandimere Speedway.

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Old 09-18-2020, 02:16 PM
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It's not as big of an altitude difference as you see going from Arizona's mesa to it's valley, but I still had a full 1300 ft of elevation change between my location and Bandimere Speedway.
Your experience gives me some hope that I won't have to make big swings at it. I'm just hoping we don't have to make 4-5 passes to get it to learn the AFR. I doubt we'll have that much test and tune before the racing starts.

You guys had fun, didn't break anything, and drove it home

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Old 09-18-2020, 02:32 PM
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Your experience gives me some hope that I won't have to make big swings at it. I'm just hoping we don't have to make 4-5 passes to get it to learn the AFR. I doubt we'll have that much test and tune before the racing starts.

You guys had fun, didn't break anything, and drove it home
You shouldn't really have to. The tables are modified by the sensors in real time by the MAP and wideband sensor. Worst case scenario is that you have about half of a single pass that the fueling will be (in your case) rich. It'll have it figured out by the end of that first pass.

Now if you installed the system from scratch and immediately drove 10 miles to the track and put it straight on the strip...I'd probably advise against that. But if you've been driving around on it for even just a couple days and it has some WOT learn values stored, you should be good to go.

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Old 09-18-2020, 06:20 PM
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You shouldn't really have to. The tables are modified by the sensors in real time by the MAP and wideband sensor. Worst case scenario is that you have about half of a single pass that the fueling will be (in your case) rich. It'll have it figured out by the end of that first pass.

Now if you installed the system from scratch and immediately drove 10 miles to the track and put it straight on the strip...I'd probably advise against that. But if you've been driving around on it for even just a couple days and it has some WOT learn values stored, you should be good to go.
Our DA at the house swings from around 5,000 to over 8,000 feet during the day. One thing I noticed when out in the morning cool air and low DA, doing a WOT run, everything above 80KPA on the learn table was pegged at 50 (doesn't do that later in the day with higher DA). So I looked at the learn values and sure enough they are only set to 50% in the base tune. That was a little unnerving knowing that the engine wanted more fuel and the base tune wasn't set high enough to supply it. That's how you hurt something. I guess Holley doesn't figure guys will use this system with huge DA swings. So I moved the learn values up to 100% in those areas to make damn sure it gets the fuel it wants at WOT, because the track is down at 1,000 feet elevation. Once it does some learning at the track I'll lock that tune in and save/name it for low elevation racing/driving, and have a second tune that I've worked on up here at high elevation. That's what I bought this thing for, I got tired of opening up the carb.

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Last edited by Formulajones; 09-18-2020 at 06:29 PM.
  #13  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:45 PM
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Was that done to both of them?

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