#81  
Old 04-28-2020, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
Could you post up a few more detailed pictures of how you will have the oil drains for the turbos plumbed?

Tom V.
I sure will when we get to that step. The turbo mount is o-ring sealed to the turbo drain and has a female 10AN orb thread on the underside. We are weighing our options right now. but there is enough fall to let gravity send them to the front of the oil pan. We originally had them lower but decided against having to use a scavenge pump. Just one more thing to possibly fail. Going to be a tight squeeze.

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1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #82  
Old 04-28-2020, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 73 TRANSAM View Post
That is an excellent build! My favorite car too! How much horsepower are you projecting to make?
We are shooting for 1200hp maybe a little more. Going to try to keep the boost under 25 psi and rpm under 6800. We did finally decide on a final drive ratio of 3.25:1 with help from Herb at Luhn Performance. He also supplied the LS firing order camshaft (see pic), camshaft synch, crank trigger setup and, of course, one of his oil pumps.
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__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #83  
Old 04-28-2020, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikW View Post
I sure will when we get to that step. The turbo mount is o-ring sealed to the turbo drain and has a female 10AN orb thread on the underside. We are weighing our options right now. but there is enough fall to let gravity send them to the front of the oil pan. We originally had them lower but decided against having to use a scavenge pump. Just one more thing to possibly fail. Going to be a tight squeeze.
Did the job for 39 years, so I will mention that turbo drains do not like more than a 15 degree "tip" from True Vertical and always want a downward desent to the oil pan. A good location for the drains is about 1.5" from the pan rail gasket and a drain should never be covered by oil. You always want the drain to exit into air but that "air" can have a baffle between the crank and the drain to keep crank windage from not allowing the oil to drain properly.
The oil from the turbos comes out as a liquid and foam mix.

Tom V.

I would hate for you to mount the turbos, not have a proper drain, have turbo oiling issues, and then have to replace a turbo down the road. Figure out how to make the mounts so that the turbo drains point downward at 90 degrees if possible. Also mounting the turbos with the CHRA fasteners is not nearly as strong as using the turbine housing inlet flange for the support mount. CHRA = Compressor Housing Rotating Assy and the oil drain is the bottom part of that assy.

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Last edited by Tom Vaught; 04-28-2020 at 06:57 PM.
  #84  
Old 04-28-2020, 07:03 PM
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Default Oil Drain

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikW View Post
I sure will when we get to that step. The turbo mount is o-ring sealed to the turbo drain and has a female 10AN orb thread on the underside. We are weighing our options right now. but there is enough fall to let gravity send them to the front of the oil pan. We originally had them lower but decided against having to use a scavenge pump. Just one more thing to possibly fail. Going to be a tight squeeze.
Here is what we are considering. Just using a scrap hose assembly for demonstration purposes. The hose would run to the oil pan. Thanks for the advice Tom. I'll consider baffling the inside of the pan where they will dump into. The turbos are mounted on a 2.5 degree forward tilt.
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__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT

Last edited by ErikW; 04-28-2020 at 07:14 PM.
  #85  
Old 04-28-2020, 07:40 PM
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Is it just the pictures or do you have the braided drain line laying against the Turbo feed pipe?

Another comment, the drain pipe/hose needs to be 20% larger than the bottom hole in the CHRA drain.
Most times people use a section of stainless pipe for the drain at least 6 inches long to get away from the
heat of the turbine housing. Then if you want to add some Braided line that is flexible that is ok from that point on.
On a engine that is driven for any period of time the heat from the turbine housing will kill a normal braided shield
drain line.

Tom V.

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Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.

Last edited by Tom Vaught; 04-28-2020 at 07:52 PM.
  #86  
Old 04-29-2020, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
Is it just the pictures or do you have the braided drain line laying against the Turbo feed pipe?

Another comment, the drain pipe/hose needs to be 20% larger than the bottom hole in the CHRA drain.
Most times people use a section of stainless pipe for the drain at least 6 inches long to get away from the
heat of the turbine housing. Then if you want to add some Braided line that is flexible that is ok from that point on.
On a engine that is driven for any period of time the heat from the turbine housing will kill a normal braided shield
drain line.

Tom V.
It's just the pic. Like I said that braided line was just to show you we had room. And we are considering running hard line for about 6". The drain hole is 1/4"npt so the actual hole is a scosh smaller and we're going to use at least 1/2" line to -10 or -12. I'm still shopping around for options. But I do understand about getting that oil out of there. I appreciate any input Tom. Thanks.

Erik

__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #87  
Old 04-29-2020, 08:43 AM
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Glad to help, I have designed a lot of turbo system drains over the 39 years I did the job.
I think you have it covered. Like I said, but adding a comment, the turbo shaft inside the CHRA whips the oil being supplied to the CHRA in a foamy solution before it comes out of the CHRA.

You need a given size for the bubbles to travel thru the drain tube vs plug the drain tube with the bubbles.

When the oil cannot get out of the CHRA, the oil level builds up and then the slip ring on the turbo shaft sees oi.

Now you have a smokey exhaust with oil droplets at the exit of the exhaust pipe. Same thing happens with too much crankcase pressure on a turbo vehicle.

Tom V.

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  #88  
Old 04-29-2020, 10:22 AM
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While we're on the subject, do you think running a vacuum pump would assist in any way with drain back? We do plan to run one after talking to Herb at Luhn. He suggested a GZ pump. What are your thoughts on that. Not that I'm looking at that as a bandaid. Just curious if the negative pressure would help to draw the air bubbles and oil into the pan.

__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #89  
Old 04-29-2020, 02:50 PM
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I would follow Herb at Luhn Performance on the Vacuum Pump deal as we never used Vacuum Pumps at work on any engine programs (Dry Sumps Yes) and I have no experience with Vacuum Pumps.

Now I did investigate a camshaft driven Turbo Drain "Gear Pump" System that was installed on the Porsche Cayenne turbo vehicles. The Dual Turbos drained into two "Collection Boxes" that had a "suction" line from each box going to a internal camshaft driven scavenge pump. (Each box had three connections: Turbo Scavenge connection, Turbo Drain connection, and a vent line connection that went to a valve cover.

The reason for this system was the turbos were mounted very low on the engine and the oil would have to flow "uphill" which is not possible so they designed the scavenge pump system. Basically a production Dry Sump system for the Turbos.

Worked really well but $$$.

Tom V.

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Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #90  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:23 AM
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Default More Progress

OK, well it's been a minute since I updated the post so here goes. Nick has been working tirelessly on the Bandit. We'll start with fabrication of the shock x-member and final cage bars. We will be using QA1 double adjustable rear shocks. After fabrication and installation of the x-member, Nick installed the remainder of the cage bars and the car was extracted from the frame table.
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__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #91  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:26 AM
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More pics. Bandit finally on her feet
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__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
The Following User Says Thank You to ErikW For This Useful Post:
  #92  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:36 AM
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While we had the car on the lift, Nick started fab work on the brake pedal mount , pedal and linkage. Tying the factory master cylinder support into the dash bar of the cage to add support to the firewall in that area. We settled on a 6.5:1 pedal ratio as Aerospace components (front and rear calipers) recommends 7:1 and Strange (master cylinder) recommends 6:1 Finalized front motor plate machining. Once on the ground, Nick finalized the steering shaft and began work on the "race exhaust" portion of the hot side. Can you guess where the exhaust will exit? Nick is fabricating stainless steel replicas of the fender air extractors where the 4" pipe will exit when in a race configuration. For the street, the exhaust will tie into a 3" oval exhaust system ending in traditional splitters. Stay tuned.
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__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #93  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:44 AM
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Once Nick is done with the air extractors we will move on to sheet metal and body work. Ugh, my least favorite part. Hope to have some color on her by early June. While I am body working the car, Nick will be busy fabricating the top of the Gutsram intake, adding additional injector bosses and fabbing up drive pulleys for the GZ vacuum pump and alternator. I'll post up pics along the way.

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1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #94  
Old 05-13-2020, 08:48 AM
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Looking good so far.

Really like the tubular support for the rad support. That will be something I take up in the future. It really opens up the front o the engine area.

Tom's right on (as usual) with the drains. I have a -12 an on my single with a line to a canister in front bumper with a RB racing pump pumping into fuel block off plate. My original mistake was not having pump wired to a direct 12 volt source with a turbo timer as well. The gear driven idea really sounds good, specifically with the venting back into the valve cover. You will not have a "back flow" issue if done correctly.

What size rear tire is that? 295,315?

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  #95  
Old 05-13-2020, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bankbook View Post
Looking good so far.

Really like the tubular support for the rad support. That will be something I take up in the future. It really opens up the front o the engine area.

Tom's right on (as usual) with the drains. I have a -12 an on my single with a line to a canister in front bumper with a RB racing pump pumping into fuel block off plate. My original mistake was not having pump wired to a direct 12 volt source with a turbo timer as well. The gear driven idea really sounds good, specifically with the venting back into the valve cover. You will not have a "back flow" issue if done correctly.

What size rear tire is that? 295,315?
We will definitely consider all drain options.

Tire size right now is M/T SS 275/60/R15 on a 10" rim. Looking at maybe going to a 295.

__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #96  
Old 05-15-2020, 08:58 PM
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Nick is killing it on the fender air extractors. they are coming along nicely. They will be ceramic coated gloss black to match the paint. I'm trying a Chip Foose trick I saw on an Overhaulin' episode. On the edge of the driver's door where it meets the quarter panel, I'm welding on a tig filler rod to the edge. Once Nick fully welds it up for me I'll be able to profile it perfectly to the quarter.
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__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #97  
Old 05-15-2020, 09:06 PM
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Love the fender extractors.
I'd planned on doing something similar on my car but ran out of ambition near the end.
Now I wish I'd pursued it but gotta say that's really cool. Nice work!

  #98  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:09 AM
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Default Air extractors

Couple more pics
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__________________
1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
  #99  
Old 05-18-2020, 07:38 AM
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NICE WORK !

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  #100  
Old 06-07-2020, 01:05 PM
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So my little experiment with the driver's door worked out pretty good. After welding a filler rod to the edge of the door and bottom, I ground it down and put on a skim coat of Metal Glaze and put on three coats of high build primer. Looks pretty good. It will get blocked out with the rest of the car later.
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1964 GTO
501, Edelbrock Heads NA, 3460 lbs.
9.76 @ 137mph
1971 Trans Am Lucy Blue, 11.56 @ 115
1966 LeMans. 462, SD prepped Kaufman D ports. 11.90 @ 112
1976 Trans Am twin turbo 462, SD Edelbrock heads 8.50@159
2009 G8 GT
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