[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by PurelyGTO68

If the car in question is a 40k mile Ram Air 4 speed then the owner is a fool to break it apart for an LS swap. I believe Mattison sold his 2 years ago for $160k so a complete car is worth some money. Enough to sell to a Pontiac collector and then buy 3 finished 67 GTOs with whatever powerplant he wants.

Yes it is his car but that doesnt mean he understands the heritage and significance of the vehicle.

Very well put. The guy is ignorant of what he has and has the arrogance to modify it. It would be like turning the first Shelby 350 with racing history into a resto-mod with a Coyote engine, etc.

To take a rare and historic vehicle and treat it like a normal, garden variety vehicle is just stupidity, IMO. But there are no shortages of fools, here or anywhere else. As Nancy Pelosi so eloquently stated when asked if she cared about historic statues being destroyed: "people will do what people will do."
Whatever. I have seen one real Ram Air '67 in my life, and that was 35 years ago. They are rare as hen's teeth.

[242177P]

The Ram Air 67 GTOs (751) are much rarer than the 69 TransAm (697). Some
might say I've got it backwards, but unlike the TA, they didn't come with a
unique paint scheme, hood, fender extractors, rear wing, etc. As used cars,
the 67s simply flew under everyone's radar.

Can't help but notice Chief weighed in, took the high value (80-100) and called
geeteeohguy names. Even after being proven wrong, offered no apology. Way
to stay classy there, "Chief".

[60sstuff]

Maybe I missed it?

Has the OP offered up any “Documentation” (PHS, Engine stamp, block date) to verify this XS ?

I’m not getting in a tizzy over claims.

BTW, geeteeohguy could run circles around some of the clowns on this wonderful site.

Have a good day, Chris.

[pont3]

My point is, different strokes for different folks! I just don't see how one could refer to another as to how one spend ONE'S money. Most people who acquire enough money to splurge on silly things like classic cars are probably not idiots. They have their tastes and the money to satisfy those tastes. NOW, if he's smart, he would recognize that his combination might contribute to his wealth, but, apparently, that is not the case, and in the end, it's still HIS money. Then again, he is probably smart enough to recognize that this RARE combination that has so many of you salivating is not even what you think it is. The big IF!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I've only ever seen 2 in person.
Both were Linden Green (ouch) 4spd Hardtops
One of them was being raced at NMCA drag events in the late 80's/early 90's

Only seen maybe a handful for sale in the past 20-30 years.
1 was a Red 4spd Convertible

The Ram Air 67 GTOs (751) are much rarer than the 69 TransAm (697)

I know what you mean.
You can buy a 69 Trans Am just about any day of any month
66 & 67 RamAir cars are some of the hardest GTO's to find.

[Adecco]

I am keeping the motor for when this whole pandemic moves on, I will then find a buyer..

Thanks for the input

[2+2=421]

Exactly..what makes a 67 a ram air other than a factory hood cutout. They all had 670 heads or were they different heads? same pistons ,compression etc. was the cam different?..I thought xp was ram air block, is it both xs or xp?

[2+2=421]

There is a 67 ram air car online for sale now at classiccars.com, claims original drivetrain, XP engine code, fully restored ..priced at 78,000.. blue one.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 2+2=421

Exactly..what makes a 67 a ram air other than a factory hood cutout. They all had 670 heads or were they different heads? same pistons ,compression etc. was the cam different?..I thought xp was ram air block, is it both xs or xp?

XS is 49 state Manual
XP is 49 state Auto

First 2/3 of production year had modified 670 heads
Last 1/3 had 997
4.33 axle gears only
4bolt main blocks
fresh air induction
big exh manfs

Pretty sure the cams were different or they wouldn't have needed the longer valves and different springs. Or maybe that was a built-in provision for the buyers "day two" mods.
I think info varies about that

a tick or two above an HO car though.
They didn't promotionally push the package , and left HP Rating the same as HO.
It was available the whole production year of 67
4.33 gears probably made most buyers turn the page on that package.

[John V.]

The topic title threw me off. I thought maybe there was something about this particular block that was unique and something that I just never learned about. Never stopped to think that "tall block" was actually a "long block".

That being the case, if the GTO is an original Ram Air build and if this engine was original to it, seems goofy to make both significantly less valuable by doing the proposed engine swap. So gotta believe it is NOT a Ram Air build and the engine came out of a long ago scrapped GTO.

The OP wanted to know the value of the engine. I have no idea. I assume it is in need of rebuilding, so whatever someone buys it for, they'd have to add the significant added cost to rebuild it. I have no use for it so has zero value to me.

Some guys place significant value on the engine manifest code stamped on the block, I've generally not been one of those guys. Since the '67 was not stamped with a partial VIN, "matching" nos. when it comes to the block is predicated on the engine manifest code and the block cast date with a hobby deduced expectation for the expected "matching" date range based on the Time Built code or actual production date where known.

Such a guy restoring a '67 Ram Air GTO might pay top dollar for a particular block if it could be perceived as "matching" his build. But that guy would be few and far between since there are so few such GTOs existing. Plus, depending on the cast date, it might still not be a good "match" to many such GTOs.

I think the value generally would depend on a few other important details.

Hopefully I won't get this wrong. I am no expert on the '67 XS or any other Ram Air engine but I have some knowledge about them.

Years ago, it was believed by most "experts" that all '67 400s used the same 2 bolt main 9786133 block casting.

More recently, it was discovered that a new block casting was introduced for the very late production '67 Ram Air engines.

These engines were the first to get the 4 bolt mains. The block casting used was the 9792510. Very few '67 Ram Air engines actually used this block, I believe Pontiac began casting it in late April, '67.

This block casting was likely designed in lockstep and apparently a portent of the '68 Ram Air block casting 9792506 just judging by the similarity in p/n. I'm not aware if anybody knows how the 9792510 differs from the 9792506.

But since the 9792510 was unique and so few of them produced, it likely would be of greater value to the right collector.

For the earlier 2 bolt main '67 Ram Air engines, my view is that an XS stamped 9786133 casting might be less valuable than the same casting that came out of a low miles 2 bbl 400 Catalina driven by the proverbial little old lady. In other words, a clean block with a "matching" cast date in my view makes a better "not original motor" than a .060 over XS block.

The other components might add some value. Are the heads 670, 670 restamped to 97, or as cast 997? IIRC, the '67 Ram Air got a specific balancer, I assume the Distributor was also Ram Air specific. If so, they would command some money. Original HO exhaust manifolds are worth something in good condition.

As with everything else, it is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. If you patiently wait for the right buyer, it might be worth thousands. If you need to liquidate it quickly, I'd be surprised if you'd get $1000 for a 9786133. If it is a 9792510, I have no idea but I'm not sure you could liquidate one of them for much more than a 9786133. JMO and bear in mind, I have no need for any 400.

[rustedgoat]

If legit and original, buy it. Keep track of the car, if he doesn't finish the project offer to buy the car.

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

XS is 49 state Manual
XP is 49 state Auto

First 2/3 of production year had modified 670 heads
Last 1/3 had 997
4.33 axle gears only
4bolt main blocks
fresh air induction
big exh manfs

Pretty sure the cams were different or they wouldn't have needed the longer valves and different springs. Or maybe that was a built-in provision for the buyers "day two" mods.
I think info varies about that

a tick or two above an HO car though.
They didn't promotionally push the package , and left HP Rating the same as HO.
It was available the whole production year of 67
4.33 gears probably made most buyers turn the page on that package.

Hey Baron...I believe all '67 RA's used the 744 cam as well as the '68 RA(I). I have read that in '68, the RA automatics (RAI & RAII) used the 068 cam.

Dennis

[Pecosbill]

If the XS is original to the car, tell the guy to sell the entire car for a premium, take the money and buy another “regular” 67 and drop his LS1 into that. Voila! He just lowered the overall cost of his “investment” and he preserved a rare car.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by 60sstuff

Maybe I missed it?

Has the OP offered up any “Documentation” (PHS, Engine stamp, block date) to verify this XS ?

I’m not getting in a tizzy over claims.

Looks like someone was very wise. It wasn't the top dog, or even an HO.
It was the base WT. Still a mistake separating it from a low mile car, but
nowhere near as big a mistake as an XS would have been.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=842819

[1965gp]

I bought the original motor out of a 67 GTO (LS swap as well). Guy had no interest in keeping it. I didn’t even look to see the code on the block- I guess I should. It had already been built before I bought it. It’s now in my 72 TA clone. Sounds great but I really haven’t driven it anywhere but in the driveway

[Pecosbill]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

I bought the original motor out of a 67 GTO (LS swap as well). Guy had no interest in keeping it. I didn’t even look to see the code on the block- I guess I should. It had already been built before I bought it. It’s now in my 72 TA clone. Sounds great but I really haven’t driven it anywhere but in the driveway

So, did you post that to kinda tease us? Now that you’ve done that you HAVE to go look at the letter code and let us know TONIGHT!

[1965gp]

Unfortunately I’m a few states away from the car right now or I would!

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by 242177P

Looks like someone was very wise. It wasn't the top dog, or even an HO.
It was the base WT. Still a mistake separating it from a low mile car, but
nowhere near as big a mistake as an XS would have been.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=842819

And he didn't even stop by to tell us...

[Joe's Garage]

I am putting a number of $6700 for it



That's awfully optimistic, IMO.