[punkin]

Getting closer. Assembly finished. I'm in line at the dyno. Hopefully this week or early next

[Scott Stoneburg]

Glad to hear the update. Let us know how the dyno goes

[mchell]

Originally Posted by punkin

Getting closer. Assembly finished. I'm in line at the dyno. Hopefully this week or early next

Nice!!!

[dmac]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

As an example and for interest here, this is very nice street build that made 650 hp with 535 cubic inches using 345 cfm Edelbrock heads with 2.250 intake valves. The cam here was a relatively mild 248 degree hydraulic roller... knowing that going to a solid roller cam you will need to add additional duration.

As in the case of this build in all likelihood the height of your intake ports on the proposed 340 cfm cylinder heads will require modifications to the Torker II intake manifold as done here. It will need TIG-welding for raised port tops in the intake, machined flat and port-matched. Nothing unusual.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...-alloy-indian/
.

650-700 hp at above 6500 rpm is one thing, but poster asked for 650-700 at 6000 rpm. Does that combo you listed do that? To me, building for 6000 rpm is an entirely different level that 7000 rpm. Asking for street driveability and pump gas seems to be asking a lot. . On the street, it is going to see a LOT of 2000 rpm to 3000rpm driving. This sounds like a job for a computer controlled engine?!?!?!
I enjoyed driving high compression 13:1 on the street when premium was 110 octane and octane booster was loaded with lead and really worked.

Is there a formula for how many cubic inches you need to get 700hp with 10.5:1 cr at 6000 rpm? Seems like that is the starting point, and you need to work backwards from there. Maybe a turbo, or blower????? May not even need as many cubic inches!!!!



.[/QUOTE]

[dmac]

Now I see a lot newer posts!!!!!

[punkin]

Super stoked...I had a chance to stop by the shop the other day as they're getting it ready for me to pick up. They still had it on the dyno and ran it up for me and indicated that they were still tinkering with the EFI. I can't remember the exact number but hit/exceeded my numbers. The HP was a bit over 650 and the torque was something like 709 at 4600 rpm (if I recall correctly). What a glorious sound. A nice smooth rumble at idle but at WOT holy cow! I couldn't be more pleased. This is going to live all day long on the highway and around town, no more over-heating with high compression cranky behaviour. Can't wait to get this put in the car. I realized after I walked out of the shop and into my truck that I still had a stupid ear to ear grin on my face :-)

Learned a bunch from the people here in the forums. A lot of good advice. I've got a really nice livable combination of parts to put back in the car. Thanks all.

[i82much]

gorgeous engine, where did you get the valve covers?

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by punkin

Super stoked...I had a chance to stop by the shop the other day as they're getting it ready for me to pick up. They still had it on the dyno and ran it up for me and indicated that they were still tinkering with the EFI. I can't remember the exact number but hit/exceeded my numbers. The HP was a bit over 650 and the torque was something like 709 at 4600 rpm (if I recall correctly). What a glorious sound. A nice smooth rumble at idle but at WOT holy cow! I couldn't be more pleased. This is going to live all day long on the highway and around town, no more over-heating with high compression cranky behaviour. Can't wait to get this put in the car. I realized after I walked out of the shop and into my truck that I still had a stupid ear to ear grin on my face :-)

Learned a bunch from the people here in the forums. A lot of good advice. I've got a really nice livable combination of parts to put back in the car. Thanks all.

What was the final combo?


Great power - torque is crazy.

[462gto]

What's the name of the shop that did the build?

[younggto]

Punkin, just curious on why head bolts instead of studs with an aluminum block; I assume the head bolts are longer than those used with a cast iron block. Looks great tho!

[grivera]

Wow- way cool. At whatRPM did it hit high HP?

[Dragncar]

Fantastic job !! I too am interested in the valve covers. Where, how much ?

[punkin]

I don't have all the nitty-gritty details that I'm sure some of you would like but I did give a lot of trust to the shop. I told them what I was after, they asked me some questions on things like how to I plan to run the car, is it set up for race or street, transmission, rear etc.. I told them I wanted a really strong street motor that's not going to be grumpy and needed to be tuned for the street then race gas and tuned again for the track. I wanted to drive to the coast for a summer trip and not have to worry when I got to sea level.

I tell ya, I still get a grin when I recall them hitting the start button on a cold start. Instant on...no cranky cranking. I wasn't really not sold on the idea of EFI. I was actually leaning towards a dominator but then I remembered the days at the track, spilling fuel on the intake, dropping jets in the pits, try this-n-that with timing, but I'm a convert now. Maybe not the ideal for drawing out max WOT power but that's not the mission here. I had to keep reminding myself of that.

Ia2 Aluminum Block
522 CID
Molnar Rods
Diamond Pistons
E-heads (340 Butler)
10.8:1 compression
ARP head bolts
Balancer (SFI)
Flexplate (SFI)
Manley Springs
Comp Cams Hydraulic Cam (248/254 @ .050, 618/638 lift 112+4 LSA)
Comp Cams Rocker and Girdle
Comp Cams Roller Lifters
Milodon Pan and windage tray
Holley Sniper XFlow
Holley Hyper Spark Distributor
11 Bolt timing cover
Valve Covers (Williamsperformance.com)
Northwind intake ported and matched with heads
Meziere water pump
Power Master Starter
ATI Flexplate
Melling Oil Pump
Short oil pump housing by KRE
Driven Oil and Filter
NGK Plugs
New set of plug wires.

There's a question about the head bolts, honestly, I don't know why they chose them over studs. As the builder indicated to me this motor is just loafing along. The cam starts to poop out about 6000 rpm. He did a couple pulls to 6K which sounded like music. I presume because of where I'm planning to turn the RPMs and compression, it may not need it...I don't know. If you think this is a concern I could ask though.

I'm headed back down into town next week to pick it up. I should have a bit more info. The guys at MadCap Racing (I hope it's ok to post the name of the business) in Denver are a great bunch. As I was leaving the shop I saw a couple old Pontiacs in there in line waiting their turn for a refresh.

Once again to everyone here. I had been lurking then started asking questions and having learned from previous mistakes, don't build a Pontiac like a Chevy. Take advantage of that long lever for street driving. 4L80e is next and out on the highway for some cool smooth cruising.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by punkin

I don't have all the nitty-gritty details that I'm sure some of you would like but I did give a lot of trust to the shop. I told them what I was after, they asked me some questions on things like how to I plan to run the car, is it set up for race or street, transmission, rear etc.. I told them I wanted a really strong street motor that's not going to be grumpy and needed to be tuned for the street then race gas and tuned again for the track. I wanted to drive to the coast for a summer trip and not have to worry when I got to sea level.

I tell ya, I still get a grin when I recall them hitting the start button on a cold start. Instant on...no cranky cranking. I wasn't really not sold on the idea of EFI. I was actually leaning towards a dominator but then I remembered the days at the track, spilling fuel on the intake, dropping jets in the pits, try this-n-that with timing, but I'm a convert now. Maybe not the ideal for drawing out max WOT power but that's not the mission here. I had to keep reminding myself of that.

Ia2 Aluminum Block
522 CID
Molnar Rods
Diamond Pistons
E-heads (340 Butler)
10.8:1 compression
ARP head bolts
Balancer (SFI)
Flexplate (SFI)
Manley Springs
Comp Cams Hydraulic Cam (248/254 @ .050, 618/638 lift 112+4 LSA)
Comp Cams Rocker and Girdle
Comp Cams Roller Lifters
Milodon Pan and windage tray
Holley Sniper XFlow
Holley Hyper Spark Distributor
11 Bolt timing cover
Valve Covers (Williamsperformance.com)
Northwind intake ported and matched with heads
Meziere water pump
Power Master Starter
ATI Flexplate
Melling Oil Pump
Short oil pump housing by KRE
Driven Oil and Filter
NGK Plugs
New set of plug wires.

There's a question about the head bolts, honestly, I don't know why they chose them over studs. As the builder indicated to me this motor is just loafing along. The cam starts to poop out about 6000 rpm. He did a couple pulls to 6K which sounded like music. I presume because of where I'm planning to turn the RPMs and compression, it may not need it...I don't know. If you think this is a concern I could ask though.

I'm headed back down into town next week to pick it up. I should have a bit more info. The guys at MadCap Racing (I hope it's ok to post the name of the business) in Denver are a great bunch. As I was leaving the shop I saw a couple old Pontiacs in there in line waiting their turn for a refresh.

Once again to everyone here. I had been lurking then started asking questions and having learned from previous mistakes, don't build a Pontiac like a Chevy. Take advantage of that long lever for street driving. 4L80e is next and out on the highway for some cool smooth cruising.

I'd be curious if the numbers are corrected for sea level.


At any rate - great power.

[TCSGTO]

Great numbers! Couple of questions on the FI system. How much tinkering did i they do to the Xflow to get it to fire cold? Did they manually tune on it or let it self learn? What afr did it end up with at WOT?

[Steve C.]

"I'm headed back down into town next week to pick it up. I should have a bit more info."

While there pick up a copy of the dyno sheet !


.

[OCMDGTO]

Great build congrats!

[Steve C.]

I'm confused as to the final cubic inches involved.... some posts suggest 522 and others 535. What is the stroke and bore ?

If you bring back one or more copies of a dyno sheet it will indicate the peak torque rpm and peak power rpm, and with the TQ/HP numbers to report.

The 535 combination I linked here in my post #10 with the 'same' cam, similar cylinder heads and a Torker II intake with 850 cfm carb made peak torque at 4400 rpm and peak power at a low 5400 rpm. A 1000 rpm spread.
With a Victor intake and 1,150-cfm Dominator carburetor it pushed the peak power to a higher 5800 rpm. A 1400 rpm spread.

.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

I'm confused as to the final cubic inches involved.... some posts suggest 522 and others 535. What is the stroke and bore ?

If you bring back one or more copies of a dyno sheet it will indicate the peak torque rpm and peak power rpm, and with the TQ/HP numbers to report.

The 535 combination I linked here in my post #10 with the 'same' cam, similar cylinder heads and a Torker II intake with 850 cfm carb made peak torque at 4400 rpm and peak power at a low 5400 rpm. A 1000 rpm spread.
With a Victor intake and 1,150-cfm Dominator carburetor it pushed the peak power to a higher 5800 rpm. A 1400 rpm spread.

.

That's incredible - 650 all in by 5400.
Does it say what the compression is?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

I'm confused as to the final cubic inches involved.... some posts suggest 522 and others 535. What is the stroke and bore ?

If you bring back one or more copies of a dyno sheet it will indicate the peak torque rpm and peak power rpm, and with the TQ/HP numbers to report.

The 535 combination I linked here in my post #10 with the 'same' cam, similar cylinder heads and a Torker II intake with 850 cfm carb made peak torque at 4400 rpm and peak power at a low 5400 rpm. A 1000 rpm spread.
With a Victor intake and 1,150-cfm Dominator carburetor it pushed the peak power to a higher 5800 rpm. A 1400 rpm spread.

.

Originally Posted by dmac

650-700 hp at above 6500 rpm is one thing, but poster asked for 650-700 at 6000 rpm. Does that combo you listed do that? To me, building for 6000 rpm is an entirely different level that 7000 rpm. Asking for street driveability and pump gas seems to be asking a lot. . On the street, it is going to see a LOT of 2000 rpm to 3000rpm driving. This sounds like a job for a computer controlled engine?!?!?!
I enjoyed driving high compression 13:1 on the street when premium was 110 octane and octane booster was loaded with lead and really worked.

Is there a formula for how many cubic inches you need to get 700hp with 10.5:1 cr at 6000 rpm? Seems like that is the starting point, and you need to work backwards from there. Maybe a turbo, or blower????? May not even need as many cubic inches!!!!



.

[/QUOTE]

A true 700hp, on pump, and driven regularly on the street?

Similar to dad's. He made 724 HP at a peak of just 5700 rpm. Peak torque of 764 was down at 4,000 where they started the pulls but the curve was already falling, so we never really found out exactly where it started, but even with that the spread was 1700 rpm, and it stayed over 700 ft lbs. for the entire pull, so it's a very happy engine.

This gets easier with more CI, and a good cylinder head. Which is why he went the direction of more cubic inch building a 571 Pontiac and stayed with the old Edelbrock round port heads he already had (not high ports). Now it doesn't need quite as much camshaft, and the smallish Pontiac conventional heads while hurting HP a bit, will make gobs of torque. He has no need to spin the engine up tight, makes torque everywhere, and cruises just as easy as the more mild engines I have here.

Of course it can be done with smaller CI Pontiac, but it requires a really good cylinder head and generally more camshaft, then drivability starts to become a concern for many, and what is considered a "real" street engine that you can use on a regular basis.

For comparison sake, Many of the crate 540 BBC's offered use the same (small for the engine size) Comp 248/254 camshaft, have 10:1 compression, and come with a dyno sheet, and they make right at 700 HP around 6,000 rpm, but torque is lower in the 670 range. Blueprint sells one just like this with a warranty. But it's a little easier to hit that HP goal with this engine and the small camshaft considering the heads flow nearly 370 cfm on the intake side and have excellent exhaust flow to go with it.
Doesn't have the torque curve the Pontiac will though. Personally I prefer to have a great cylinder head so I don't have to go so crazy on camshaft when I'm looking to hit a certain power goal. Makes for a happy street engine that's a little more on the tame side. Cubic Inch is your friend.

Just depends on how you want to approach it. Most street cars in here will have a hard time harnessing the torque curve a big inch Pontiac will make, or even the Chevrolet example for that matter.