#1  
Old 01-11-2023, 04:12 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Default 'rabbit hole' of the day: gear levers (Muncie)

So I find these little 'rabbit holes' that I go down;
Often it is a subject that I had previously made a mental note to "look into this later" spurred on by something I see or interact with.

Today's rabbit hole is gear levers (or maybe they should be called shift levers?);

I had in my hands last night the a complete setup of shifter, rods and levers for a 1970-1972 Camaro with a Muncie;
The rods were beautiful, and the 100% correct parts.
I was guessing that the levers were the correct ones too.

When I was last driving my car (it had a 1972 M22), the levers and rods were a hodge-podge of factory and aftermarket stuff;
I have never owned the correct Muncie rods or levers.

This past year I solved the Muncie rod situation, and last night, I decided that I should maybe look into getting correct levers too.
(I will have a Muncie four speed laying in wait for my car, and I plan to swap between four and three speed as I see fit.)

From my searching this morning (in between jobs) it appears as though the correct levers for a 70-74 Muncie should be:
1-2 & 3-4: 5615
reverse: 5616

The levers I just boxed up (because they were never mine) were:
1-2 & 3-4: 870
reverse: 5616

The levers I had acquired from a 74-81 Borg Warner setup are:
1-2 & 3-4: 9067
reverse: 6392

I believe that the BW levers are dead ringers for the Muncie levers, except they do not have the slotted holes required for 69(?)-74 Muncie's.

From my searching this morning it appears as though the 1970-1974 levers used on the F-body, are the same as the ones used on 1969 F-bodies;
The numbers for the 1969 reverse lever appear to be 5769.

I have some factory levers which I do not know their original application;
They are stamped 1388, and they look to be dead ringers for the BW-9067 levers.

I also have some Saginaw levers (which are shared with the three speed):
1-2: 4293
3-4: 4294


Questions:
  1. Can anyone confirm that the 870 lever is an aftermarket part?
  2. Does anyone know what a factory 1388 lever was originally used on?
  3. Can anyone confirm if the 1388 is a suitable replacement for a 5615?
  4. Can anyone confirm that the 1969 #5769 reverse lever is the same as the 1970-1974 #5616 reverse lever?

If needed, I can upload images.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #2  
Old 01-27-2023, 06:18 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Default

I am giving this a small bump...
with some pictures.

This is one of the 870 levers that I was hoping someone might be able to tell me the original/correct application for (because other information I found suggest that the correct 1/2 & 3/4 levers for 70-74 Muncie's should be 5615):




These are the 1388 levers (in between the 74-81 BW 9067 levers) which I was hoping someone might be able to tell me the original/correct application for:




These are two different images of the 70-74 Muncie reverse lever (second image shows the stamped number), that I was hoping someone might be able to tell me if it does interchange with the 1969-5769 lever:


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__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #3  
Old 01-27-2023, 07:19 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Default

Will check & post back late...
Pulled out earlier this afternoon, several trays of original '69 & early 70's shifters & attached linkage.

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  #4  
Old 01-27-2023, 07:32 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
Will check & post back late...
Pulled out earlier this afternoon, several trays of original '69 & early 70's shifters & attached linkage.
oh?

I spent more than i care to admit to get a 70 Camaro shifter last year c/w shift rods, but the levers were MIA.

If you have a spare (functionally correct) reverse lever that you are willing to part with, I'd be very interested.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #5  
Old 01-28-2023, 02:20 AM
Lemans64's Avatar
Lemans64 Lemans64 is offline
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Just to add some more confusion to the pile, LOL, I went looking for some info I found thru Hurst, giving part numbers and shift lever numbers which might be of help to solve this but kinda backwards searching if you have the time.
If you know the shift linkage number you can click on shift rod number and it will tell you what the original arm number was.

https://www.shifterdoc.com/Comp%20Pl...plications.pdf

https://www.shifterdoc.com/productca...e-Kits-d10.htm

https://www.shifterdoc.com/Hurst_Lin...t_Numbers2.PDF

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  #6  
Old 01-28-2023, 12:09 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
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/\ the problem with the Hurst stuff is that it’s all aftermarket, and designed to work only with their (aftermarket) shift rods.
When I got my car it had all aftermarket Hurst stuff, and I could never get it to shift just right - I attribute that in part to the pipe-cleaner-esque shift rods.

So I am only looking for the OEM GM rods (read: thick) and OEM GM levers.

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #7  
Old 01-28-2023, 03:16 PM
Held for Ransom's Avatar
Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is offline
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I'm probably not answering the questions properly, but here goes...

The 870 is a '69 6 cyl., 2-3 shift arm.
No clue on the 1388 or 5769.
1388 is not the same as the 9067 as you can see by the angle of the slots.
Your 9067 arm was a later BW F-body arm, earlier arm was 6391.
Pictured are the 1974 Muncie (5615 & 5616) and BW (6391 & 6392) arms.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Held for Ransom For This Useful Post:
  #8  
Old 01-28-2023, 03:22 PM
unruhjonny's Avatar
unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
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/\ Thank you very much!!!

__________________
1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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