[taalltheway]

Seems like a great deal to me! I guess the problem is that the guys who really care about a RAIV-engine want a super duper-correct-like-new-restored car and the guys looking for a driver would rather have a souped up 455…I think the RAIV-engine alone should be worth a lot….and the 21.5 K he wanted in his last listing are not too much even for an average driver condition standard GTO. When i read this ad on ebay i immediately thought it was a scam because a real RAIV could not be so cheap….i guess i am not the only one….

Let us assume this was a regular GTO that someone has put a real RAIV-engine in…wouldn't this still be a great deal? And what if it is a real RAIV that has just ben doctored with over the years?…even better. A RAIV that is not over restored and that one could actually drive a lot….sounds like a Pontiac dream to me!

[1971WARBIRD]

Originally Posted by hobi

MAYBE IF ENOUGH PEOPLE CHIME IN ON THE CORRECTNESS OR LACK THERE OF THE FIREWALL ON THIS CAR OR ABOUT WHATS RIGHT AND WRONG WITH IT OH WAIT IS HE ASKING $123,000.00 OR IS IT $23,000.00 THIS SEASONED PONTIAC GUY MIGHT FEEL SO BAD AFTER READING ALL THESE BRAIN STORM POSTS ABOUT SHOULD I BUY IT OR MAYBE I SHOULD CHECK WITH THE WIFE FIRST BUT IN THE MEANTIME BUST THE SELLERS BALLS ABOUT A $23,000.00 GTO RESTORED WITH A RAM IV MOTOR MAYBE JUST MAYBE HE WILL FEEL REAL CHRITABLE AND GIVE IT AWAY EVEN SO I AM WILLING TO BET THAT WOULD STILL NOT BE GOOD ENOUGH ON HERE PEOPLE WOULD WANT HIM TO PAY FOR THE TRANSPORT TO UNBELIEVABLE BUY THE CAR OR PLEASE KILL THIS DEAD END THREAD:jumping ::jum ping:

here it what people are looking at.
you could NOT get AC with a Ram Air IV engine, SO what happened?
did the factory use an AC body by mistake?
did someone add AC at some point?
did someone change bodies at some point in the life of this car?

NOW, IF someone changed bodies, that means they changed the vin tag on the dash. IF they changed the VIN tag, that is illegal, go to jail, go directly to jail, as that is a felony. crossing state lines they will check the vin before giving you a registration in that state. most times they just check the vin on the dash, but they can check the other stamping also. as long as the vin doesn't come up stolen, you get your paperwork.

if you buy it knowing that it is changed to keep just as a nice driver, it is on you. problem is, if you ever decide to sell it, the new owner can claim you sold a faked car and sue. this is really dicey, like playing musical chairs, last one standing without a chair looses. we used to have a dealer here in Ohio who had a car lot full of LS-6 SS Chevelles, being sold for big money, problem was, as I heard the were not real. all I know for sure is they are not around any more, but heard they were prosecuted for it.

now you really want to screw things up? I have been in muscle cars since the mid 70's when I drove a 1967 SS Chevelle to high school. I collected all the magazines I could get my hands on about old muscle cars from new back then, to bought at car shows now. back in the 70's, several of the biggest well know engine rebuilders, and body shops of the day would come straight out and talk about renumbering blocks to matching number, and rebadging shells that were too wasted. that is the reason guys check and check and check before buying these old cars for big money.

I will say this, I have dealt with Sweet Muscle before with NO problems, everything was up front and as stated. I was injured in Afghanistan and at FT Know KY right now waiting for knee replacement surgery, so I will be out of the game for the next year. if I was closer, and not laid up, I would get rid of a couple of my projects and get this as a driver to play with, and keep till I died.

[1971WARBIRD]

Originally Posted by taalltheway

Seems like a great deal to me! I guess the problem is that the guys who really care about a RAIV-engine want a super duper-correct-like-new-restored car and the guys looking for a driver would rather have a souped up 455…I think the RAIV-engine alone should be worth a lot….and the 21.5 K he wanted in his last listing are not too much even for an average driver condition standard GTO. When i read this ad on ebay i immediately thought it was a scam because a real RAIV could not be so cheap….i guess i am not the only one….

Let us assume this was a regular GTO that someone has put a real RAIV-engine in…wouldn't this still be a great deal? And what if it is a real RAIV that has just ben doctored with over the years?…even better. A RAIV that is not over restored and that one could actually drive a lot….sounds like a Pontiac dream to me!

No, No, No, no need to assume.....
please look at the ad again. the title, vin and PHS are for a RA IV car, so some thing has been changed.
now if the vin said regular GTO and someone added an RA IV, that would be great. do you see what we are saying now.

[hobi]

Originally Posted by 1971WARBIRD

here it what people are looking at.
you could NOT get AC with a Ram Air IV engine, SO what happened?
did the factory use an AC body by mistake?
did someone add AC at some point?
did someone change bodies at some point in the life of this car?

NOW, IF someone changed bodies, that means they changed the vin tag on the dash. IF they changed the VIN tag, that is illegal, go to jail, go directly to jail, as that is a felony. crossing state lines they will check the vin before giving you a registration in that state. most times they just check the vin on the dash, but they can check the other stamping also. as long as the vin doesn't come up stolen, you get your paperwork.

if you buy it knowing that it is changed to keep just as a nice driver, it is on you. problem is, if you ever decide to sell it, the new owner can claim you sold a faked car and sue. this is really dicey, like playing musical chairs, last one standing without a chair looses. we used to have a dealer here in Ohio who had a car lot full of LS-6 SS Chevelles, being sold for big money, problem was, as I heard the were not real. all I know for sure is they are not around any more, but heard they were prosecuted for it.

now you really want to screw things up? I have been in muscle cars since the mid 70's when I drove a 1967 SS Chevelle to high school. I collected all the magazines I could get my hands on about old muscle cars from new back then, to bought at car shows now. back in the 70's, several of the biggest well know engine rebuilders, and body shops of the day would come straight out and talk about renumbering blocks to matching number, and rebadging shells that were too wasted. that is the reason guys check and check and check before buying these old cars for big money.

I will say this, I have dealt with Sweet Muscle before with NO problems, everything was up front and as stated. I was injured in Afghanistan and at FT Know KY right now waiting for knee replacement surgery, so I will be out of the game for the next year. if I was closer, and not laid up, I would get rid of a couple of my projects and get this as a driver to play with, and keep till I died.

FIRST OF ALL WARBIRD THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE I HAVE DEALT WITH SWEETMUSCLE FOR 12 YEARS NEVER A PROBLEM HE HAS BEEN UPFRONT ABOUT EVERY DEAL WE HAVE DONE. THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE ON HERE IS REAL SIMPLE ITS VERY VERY OBVIOUS THAT SOMETHING HAS BEEN DONE TO THIS CAR THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT AND IM SURE IF SOMEONE WAS SERIOUS ABOUT THE CAR AND CALLED SWEET HE WOULD DISCLOSE EVERYTHING HE KNOWS. THE [PROBLEM FOR ME IS WHY PEOPLE ON HERE JUST HAVE TO THRASH SOMEONES CAR OR PARTS AND SHOW THEIR PONTIAC KNOWELAGE IVE BEEN DOING THESE CARS SINCE 1976 I SURE DONT KNOW EVERYTHING BUT WHEN IT COMES TO 1969-1970 GTO CONVERTIBLES AND JUDGES I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA ALSO SO AGAIN WE ALL KNOW RAM IV NO AIR SO YEAH SOMETHING HAS BEEN DONE. NOW LETS NOT ASSUME SWEET DID ANYTHING TO THE CAR OTHER THAN RESTORE REFURBISH WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT HOW HE GOT THE CAR 1 HES NOT ASKING $123,000.00 HES ASKING $23,000.00 2 HES NO SAYING ANYTHING THAT IS NOT TRUE IN HIS DESCRIPTION HE POSTED PAPERWORK AND SHOWED DETAILED PICTURES OF THE CAR SO IF HE HAD SOMETHING TO HIDE HE WOULD NOT HAVE POSTED CERTAIN PICTURES IE THE FIREWALL, BUT PEOPLE ON HERE STILL HAVE TO BEAT THE CAR TO DEATH AND THE WORSE PART ASSUME THE WORST ABOUT. I CAN TELL YOU FROM BEING AROUND BACK IN THE DAY IT WAS NOT UNCOMMON TO SPLICE THOSE CARS BACK TOGETHER AFTER A FIRE ACCIDENT OR WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE. I SEEN BODY SHOPS PUT A FRAME FROM A OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS UNDER A 1970 JUDGE BECAUSE THATS WHAT WAS DONE BACK THEN OR DO A CUT AT THE WINDSHIELD AND PUT A 1970 LEMANS BODY ATTACHED TO A 1970 JUDGE COWL THATS REALITY NOBODY WAS DECEIVING ANYONE IT WAS SIMPLE BUSINESS PRACTICE TO FIX SAID CAR BUT ALOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE THINK IN FEBRUARY 1969 A JUDGE CAME INTO THE DEALER WITH A BROKEN RAM IV MOTOR AND THE SALVATION PONTIAC ARMY STORED THE BUSTED MOTOR AWAY FOR 45 YEARS SO THEY COULD RESCUE ANOTHER JUDGE RESTORATION IN 2010 YEAH RIGHT MOST OF THESE CARS ARE SCABBED TOGETHER WITH WHATEVER WAS AROUND OR YOU COULD GET YOUR HANDS ON THERES MORE JUDGES NOW THAN WHEN THEY WERE NEW ONLY MOST EVERYONE ON HERE WONT ADMIT NOT MINE MY CAR IS RARE ALL ORIGINAL NUMBERS MATCHING BLA BLA BLA BLA AND ALL THE SSSUMPTIONS ON HERE IN REALITY KILLS SOME PEOPLES LIVING AND THATS NOT RIGHT IF HE WAS TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE I WOULD BE THE FIRST ONE TO JUMP IN BUT MAN LEAVE THESE PEOPLE ALONE THATS WHY THERES JURY TRIALS YOUR PRSUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY JUST NOT ON HERE TO BAD IM DONE HERE

[scorpio ps]

Don't know Sweetmuscle although his reputation is not black and white according to some that have posted on here before. I'm not here to judge. Don't know if there's funny bidness going on as I'm not in the market for this car. Just don't let greed get in the way of good common sense. My father had some great sayings. "Nothing good is cheap and Nothing cheap is good" the other one I liked " You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s..t no matter how hard you try", how true. For those that want to buy it, there are two ends to a pool. Deep end and the shallow end. Whichever end you jump in, just make sure you can swim.

[hobi]

Originally Posted by scorpio ps

Don't know Sweetmuscle although his reputation is not black and white according to some that have posted on here before. I'm not here to judge. Don't know if there's funny bidness going on as I'm not in the market for this car. Just don't let greed get in the way of good common sense. My father had some great sayings. "Nothing good is cheap and Nothing cheap is good" the other one I liked " You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s..t no matter how hard you try", how true. For those that want to buy it, there are two ends to a pool. Deep end and the shallow end. Whichever end you jump in, just make sure you can swim.

REFER BACK 2 POST 64

[Peje]

Maybe "Sweetmuscle" have a comment on this to clear things out?

[JLHarper]

How long has this RAIV judge clone been for sale now....right at a year...and it hasnt sold yet?

Enough said.

Read some of the comments in the sellers profile.......in addition to the ones in the other ares of this site.........one was from another PY member, Forest.... who is a resto shop owner had concerns about a car/body he bought from Sweet Muscle......what car was that one?

That's what kills me about these forums......people protect these sellers with KNOWN bad rep / history and you know they ALWAYS do it again on some other honest member...

Check some of the comments...

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...r.php?u=137388

.

[abefromen]

Originally Posted by Peje

Maybe "Sweetmuscle" have a comment on this to clear things out?

Hasn't posted in over two years. After reading some of those messages at his profile I can see why.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by JLHarper

Check some of the comments...

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...r.php?u=137388

.

Thanks for the heads-up.

[scorpio ps]

Originally Posted by JLHarper

How long has this RAIV judge clone been for sale now....right at a year...and it hasnt sold yet?

Enough said.

Read some of the comments in the sellers profile.......in addition to the ones in the other ares of this site.........one was from another PY member, Forest.... who is a resto shop owner had concerns about a car/body he bought from Sweet Muscle......what car was that one?

That's what kills me about these forums......people protect these sellers with KNOWN bad rep / history and you know they ALWAYS do it again on some other honest member...

Check some of the comments...

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...r.php?u=137388

.

Finally….. Enough said is right. JLHarper pretty much sums it up. Danger……..

[scorpio ps]

Originally Posted by hobi

REFER BACK 2 POST 64

hobi,

Here's one more for you. "Birds of a feather flock together".

Refer 2 post 68. That one is pretty much a checkmate move.

[JLHarper]

This OO subject car in discussion has been up for sale a few different times and for "a lot longer than a year." I had posted "almost a year"

A PY member alerted me to my mistake, sorry to bump the thread....

[ponchjoe]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

I sent him a PM telling him about this thread, hoping he might chime in. I'm sure he's seen it...
The bottom line guys is that we can speculate, poke holes at it (pun intended) call it a re-body, whatever, but it is still a nice looking driver 1970 Pontiac A-body with a RAIV. It all depends on what you want to spend your money on and what makes you happy. If you don't trust what it is, trust the seller, etc., why chastise it? Move on...

Well if it truly sold, it only went for $18241. Helluva deal for a RAIV anything.
Can we let this go now?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

"Decor Group Option" would have put Deluxe Hubcaps on this one from the factory.
Along with the White Letter tire option .... wild

Killer deal at 18+ ... if the rivets looked good.
I'm sure someone is a happy new owner.

[Pepper Judge]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

"Decor Group Option" would have put Deluxe Hubcaps on this one from the factory.
Along with the White Letter tire option .... wild

Killer deal at 18+ ... if the rivets looked good.
I'm sure someone is a happy new owner.

Seller told me he was paid and deal was complete.

Even with some questions remaining about the vehicle not being fully clarified, I tried a late bid but wasn’t successful. Like BVZ stated, a Ram IV motor was worth a lot and the car seemed to be pretty clean.