[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by 62Lemans

As you say, there are many things to be considered. We looked at a Browning Hi-Power 9mm but my wife couldnt rack the slide. So as you point out physical size and weight are a factor.

From a legal standpoint, you wont be allowed to just keep blazing away with a 22 till the guy goes down. Two is about the limit. If you shoot 3 or more you can expect TROUBLE with the Persecutor [intentional spelling] to the jury.

They tried to prosecute me for chosing the 45LC instead of my 22 till I pointed out that business about Reagan and the 22 in 1980.

A long gun is doggoned difficult to maneuver in a hallway or doorway. Usually will be at night and you are still half asleep, maybe trying to get your glasses on.

Remember what I said about the low orange muzzle flash. The last thing you need is to be blinded with a super bright white flash in a pitch black room. Dont count on 'blinking' at the right moment to protect your eyes. Not good tactics!

USE FRANGIBLE BULLETS and -DONT- LOAD your own - that is another legal No No. The State persecutor will tell the jury "He's a real killer he loads his own ammo for power".
regardless of what ever load you do use.

If you thiink you may ever have a home invasion: FIND OUT THE FACTS for your locality first - be prepared!!! And check all of Dr Facklers forensic medical info.

As one final note. Long after the fact I had ocassion to speak with the State Persecutor on the phone. In THE SAME BREATH WITHOUT PAUSING EVEN This is what he said word for word: If I had been in your place Mr Wise, Id have done exactly the same thing but if he died I was gonna prosecute you for 1st degree murder!!! Now aint that sweet! Find out the facts - you dont want to have to find a $200,000 Ben Matlock lawyer - that homeowners ins WONT pay for. ;-)


IF you are shooting just for fun. Id go with a Ruger MKI or II 22 with the 10" bull bbl.
I have a Ruger outfitted with a 10 power scope (and a 'fallaway' shoulder stock that I made). I can hit a quarter at a 100 yds. Also I only shoot Longs std power (when I can find em.) PS lest someone out there doesnt know about shoulder stocks - AS LONG AS IT FALLS AWAY by itself when you put the gun down it is not illegal.

One of the best reasons to belong to the NRA.
They have a list of attorneys that specialize in everything gun related in every State.
And especially what you went thru.
They even claim discount fees for NRA members.

Also included is gun insurance in case of theft.

Ive been a member for DECADES!!!! But when I contacted the NRA-ILA they were as useless as the mammary glands on a male hog! They sloughed me off and said they werent interested!

All sorts of things sound good up front but just wait til you try to use em.

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

62lemans, regardless what the prosecuter said, all of the criteria were met in your case for using deadly force. No jury anyplace would have convicted you of 1st degree murder. I would be really surprised if a grand jury even brought charges against you once hearing all the facts...

Agreed! My buddy’s father in law went that whole nine yards with an intruder. He was prosecuted because the law says they have to but it was basically a formality that HAS to be gone through to make sure there was no wrong doing. Unlike you he shot the guy outside the house while he was trying to break into the screen door which is in the courts eye a MUCH “iffier” situation then you were in. The jury had NO sympathy for the intruder and it over pretty quick. That said it was a pain in the butt for him to have to go through all that for sure. As my friends dad and my set fathers sister have told me (both Sheriffs) your best bet for the least hassle IS to KILL them IN our house. They don’t have much to say in their defense that way and 99.9999% of the time there isn’t a jury in the world that will convict a man defending his home especially when they have actually entered the house.

BUT, I have a side note to that below.

Originally Posted by 62Lemans

Heres the difference that the prosecutor was working from. The police DID NOT record my nor my wifes statements correctly! ("Im only typing with one finger dont make me type all of that!") and he refused! Beside we live in the Socialist State of Maryland...

Now as far as the mess that went on with you in your state I’m totally baffled. I can’t understand all that mess! I’ve never been in your situation exactly but back in 1979 my aunt was murdered and the friends and family of my “uncle”, I use that term only because it is technically correct, who was the murderer, harassed us too and it was a freaking MESS! My aunt was the one murdered and we were harassed? Man that was some kind of pretzel logic on someone’s part! The guy got out of jail because one of the witnesses lied on the stand! So there he was walking the streets when my aunt was gone and had two little boys (I think they were 6 and 10 at the time) wondering where there mother was. What a justice system!

So given the reality of what we have both seen in the world of criminal “justice” I have to put a disclaimer on what those two trusted friends and law officers told me. I truly think it depends on the professionalism of the local agency handling the case and how “liberal” and twisted the “law” becomes. To me it’s cut and dried. You enter my home without my permission and your life is forfeit. That’s MY house and MY sanctuary and not to be entered in ANY way shape or form without my knowledge or permission and only truly MASSIVE extenuating circumstances would ever make that untrue.

The only thing I can think of would make the above statment untrue would be something I thought I was going to have to do one time. I got stuck in a bad snow storm and couldn’t get my truck out of the ditch. I had friends with other vehicles with me (never go 4X4’ing for fun in a blizzard, yes we were idiots!) and we were able to get them home but we weren’t sure and there was a house right there (the only one for a couple miles and the snow was coming down HARD) and the people weren’t home and if we had a choice of freezing to death or breaking into that house to live I choose living. Now had the guy come home with a gun I can’t truly blame him for shooting first and asking questions later but I would hope of course the situation would be obvious and at the LEAST he would call in the law first.

I dont understand the cops or the justice system in Md either.

We have had ocassion to call for police assistance 12 other times in the 23 years we've lived at this residence. Mostly regarding neighborhood disturbances (fights in the street; debris and medical waste being thrown into the yard; people abandoning cars in front of our house,etc). Its a dead end with no houses around the large circle and sometimes there have been 'deals' go down at that end in the dark.
NOT ONCE have the cops ever done anything FOR us.

The fuzz even tried to tell me they had no way of identifying the abandoned car (if it was mine and had been stolen Id want em to find it and let me know.) The officer refused to look at the VIN nbr when I suggested that was a way of finding the owner(wouldnt check out the lisence plates with MVA either). Fortunately our councilman was able to bring pressure to bear and had the car towed away.

During a street fight in '91, I watched the cruiser pull up under a streetlight one block away and sit there watching nine people duke it out at 3AM, they sat there till it was all over and then just drove away.....


On the 'rifle subject' the thrust of my relating my situation was to advise others of the possible pitfalls awaiting them; the need to FIND out what the local ordenances say BEFORE they find themselves in a similar mess and the definite need to arm themselves with ADEQUATE defence beforehand! I dont think anyone would want their wife or girlfriend to become a casulty from using that 22/25/32/38 (you can not count on a 'direct' hit in the dark, better to use adequate BLOOD LETTER)!! The -last- thing you need is to just make some druggedup maniac -angry- and have him really wreck havoc on you, your family and your property.

From a LOT of research done over 1989-1993 LET me repeat:

1) Get a handgun whose calibre starts with a '4' (maybe even '5'). Maybe 357 ??
Trying to wield a long gun in the dark in a hallway or doorway is NOT GOOD!!
(they are making a 45/410 derringer. Only two shots but the 410 would be nice.)

2) As someone else said a revolver is best, it ALWAYS goes boom when you pull the
trigger. Im not sure if double or single action because some women might not have
the strength to pull the trigger thru on a dbl action?? Can be cocked tho. Women
might also need to practice two handed shooting to hold the larger gun.

3) ALWAYS USE -FRANGIBLE- BULLETS. Maybe $3 per round but well worth it.
They DO NOT penetrate walls and endanger others behind or next door. Another
reason NOT to use a long gun cartridge. Frangibles leave a horrendous wound channel and the copper jacket gets busted up enuf to make ballistics very difficult.


PS if you have to shoot em outside pull em inside.


God forbid that anyone ever has to use any of this info!!!

[Region Warrior]

Originally Posted by 62Lemans

Ive been a member for DECADES!!!! But when I contacted the NRA-ILA they were as useless as the mammary glands on a male hog! They sloughed me off and said they werent interested!

All sorts of things sound good up front but just wait til you try to use em.

Dam, that is discouraging to here.
Hope they've improved since then.

We have "castle dotrine" here, so thats one up in our favor.
But let them enter before taking action.
Make sure it's in the front.

I do alot of work in the driveway late nights, and many times people stop to ask directions.
There are some gang's drug run'n thru here along with peacefull runners.
Sucks carry'n a cock-n-locked side arm while work'n on cars.

[Speargun]

Originally Posted by 62Lemans

PS if you have to shoot em outside pull em inside.

DON'T pull em inside.
That may have been true 30 years ago, but today it's called tampering with evidence and will most likely get you arrested.

Speargun, that was why that great big grin following that sentence.

Ill tell you another thing that worked 40 years ago but is a no-no now a days.
To tell the cops if they dont think they can get there in so many minutes (you pick how many) they can bring the coroner!

That worked for me in 1965 with a tresspasser and boy did the cops boogey to get there.
My wife told the cops that to try and speed em up and that was another thing they tried to use against me in 1988.

No that was sarcasm...

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by 62Lemans

During a street fight in '91, I watched the cruiser pull up under a streetlight one block away and sit there watching nine people duke it out at 3AM, they sat there till it was all over and then just drove away....

1) Get a handgun whose calibre starts with a '4' (maybe even '5'). Maybe 357 ??
Trying to wield a long gun in the dark in a hallway or doorway is NOT GOOD!!
(they are making a 45/410 derringer. Only two shots but the 410 would be nice.)

2) As someone else said a revolver is best, it ALWAYS goes boom when you pull the
trigger. Im not sure if double or single action because some women might not have
the strength to pull the trigger thru on a dbl action?? Can be cocked tho. Women
might also need to practice two handed shooting to hold the larger gun.

3) ALWAYS USE -FRANGIBLE- BULLETS. Maybe $3 per round but well worth it.
They DO NOT penetrate walls and endanger others behind or next door. Another
reason NOT to use a long gun cartridge. Frangibles leave a horrendous wound channel and the copper jacket gets busted up enuf to make ballistics very difficult.


PS if you have to shoot em outside pull em inside.


God forbid that anyone ever has to use any of this info!!!

Your statement about the police cruiser stopping and watching that fight reminded me of something else that happened when my aunt was murdered. The neighbors had called the Sheriff about the disturbance and he came out to check it out. The problem wasn’t even a timely arrival but the fact that he drove up and saw the situation AND KEPT DRIVING! If they had gotten out of the car when they had seen my “uncle” pointing a shotgun at my aunt setting in a lawn chair in front of my grandmothers house it might have actually saved her life. Oh I guess it might not have either but we’ll never know…

As far as the gun advice goes that sounds good to me. I agree on the frag bullets. I forget all about those being out there. That’s one of the issues too when using an auto loading pistol is that some of them don’t like the specialty rounds because the nose of the bullet doesn’t feed right and they jam up. A revolver is the most reliable gun other than a signal shot or bolt action maybe. The revolvers as far as I know never have issues with the specialty rounds either.

And as you said God forbid anyone should ever need to use any of this info. I hate the doomsayers that talk about how they will do this and that WHEN the defecation hits the rotating oscillator and civilization collapses. Let us all pray to the Lord above it doesn’t come to that because it would be ugly and won't be like anyone thinks it will be and certainly NO ONE will really be prepared.

Someone breaking into your house is not much different. You can only be as ready as you can be given there are no pat answers in those situations other than keep as cool as you can, THINK QUICK, ACT NOW, have SOME KIND OF PLAN thought out, and never let a plan get in the way of reality! JMO.

[fiedlerh]

I would mention that if you want to arm yourself, do it soon, I'm suspecting the new President is going to try to disarm all of us, or at least make it very difficult to arm yourself...just a hunch?......Cliff

I wouldn't be surprised if our soon-to-be Dear Leader tires to make the Brady Campaign proposals into federal law and require folks to register any and all firearms in their posession with the BATF or some new national police force. And the majority of citizens will happily agree.


If this country collapses it'll either be so gradual that we'll hardly notice, or just the opposite; when tanks roll down the streets we'll be hiding in the basement.

I would say exactly the same thing as fiedlerh has said, with this added caveat: His intenion is plain that he intends to totally disarm the populace. I have a friend from Chicago who actually spoke to the man some 8 years ago during one of the local 'rallys' (like Joe the Plumber)! He plain out told John - "I dont believe ANYONE should own a gun of any kind"!! quote and unquote John!

With the congressional backing already in place it wont be hard to accomplish.
I also wouldnt be surprised about the 'tanks rolling down the streets someday' becoming a reality.
The slow and gradual has been going on for the 40 years Ive been associated with the NRA and active in local gun clubs.

Indeed BUY NOW!!

Then look into building yourself a 'safe' out of CPVC pipe that looks like a drain cleanout and intstall it in one of your basement walls.

[1971WARBIRD]

like others have said,buy a good supply of ammo for what ever gun you decide on.i think that will be the first thing they will go after.it was talked about during the Clinton years,taxing ammo till people could not afford it.

i'm sure you have all seen the bumper sticker;(not sure of the exact words)

This is the first time a civialized country has been totally disarmed bla bla bla.
A Hitler
they went smiling and cheering.
can someone find the whole thing and post it?

Take a look at this link if you think we might be alone in our fears.

http://news.yahoo.com:80/nphotos/Mos...15b5a619f9c91/

[Region Warrior]

Obama Bin Ladin will have the same affect on gun-n-ammo sales as Clinton did.
Stock up now before prices go thru the roof.

[Rob B]

Originally Posted by 62Lemans

Take a look at this link if you think we might be alone in our fears.

http://news.yahoo.com:80/nphotos/Mos...15b5a619f9c91/

There was a story on our local news just the other night.

[fiedlerh]

ABC news had reports of record gun sales. They inteviewed one shop owner who said even people with Obama t-shirts were buying because they were afraid he would make it more difficult to buy them.

[baron_]

We should flood the 'garage sale' area with firearms for sale/trade

I bet there's quite a few of us shopping around and selling/trading

This is a little off topic but....

This came from a friend in Tx couple of weeks ago and might be worth using in the
next few weeks.
They had gone to a restaurant and the waiter was wearing a large Obama button.
When he brought the check they informed him that they would be giving his tip to
a favorite charity because they were sure he would want them to 'spread the wealth
around'.
He went away fuming!

Another note from a business friend in Mass yesterday: Knowing that this 'upset' was
gonna force him to lay off people and troubled by the thot because he considered all
of them 'family'. He was walking around his parking lot on Wed mulling over the problem.
He noticed 8 cars with Obama bumper stickers. He tells me he has decided that when
the day comes, they willl be the first ones to be layed off!

Concerning which rifle to buy. Here is an interesting story about a 'malfunctioning' rifle that the ATF decided was a 'machine gun' and the owner has been incarcerated.
PS I dont see the NRA doing anything. ??????

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80701

[1971WARBIRD]

Originally Posted by 62Lemans

Concerning which rifle to buy. Here is an interesting story about a 'malfunctioning' rifle that the ATF decided was a 'machine gun' and the owner has been incarcerated.
PS I dont see the NRA doing anything. ??????

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80701

don't look for the NRA or anyone that knows weapons to go running to his aid.you can NOT put a selector in the third position on a stock unmodified weapon.the safety has 2 positions,safe and fire.you have to change out the safety to get it to go to the 3rd position.

now if it was old and had been shot alot the disconnecter could be worn and not grabbing the hammer like it is suppose to,this will let the weapon fire until you let off the trigger(slam firing,this is where the hammer follows the bolt back forward and hits the firing pin,only works if you have a full auto bolt).All AR15's are suppose to have a AR15bolt,hammer,trigger,safety and disconnecter that makes slam fires impossible without breaking the firing pin on the notch in the hammer.if you get caught changing out the parts you have a machine-gun,no matter if it does or doesn't fire multiple rounds.

Did you follow the link and Read the story??

Even the ATFs own expert testified that the malfunction was JUST THAT - A MALFUNCTION - due to wear.

There were NO modifications made to the weapon. The gun did NOT fail every time. Only once in a while. I found the intial item months ago. In that first article the owner testified that the gun had NEVER misfired for him so he did not know about the wear problem. The first ocurrance was after he had loaned it to a friend and it failed for him.

The AFT charged this guy with 'transferring' an automatic weapon without proper paper work and lisence.

See how easy it is to get sc&*$ed by the authorities?